# List of Progun Democrats?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [June 8, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211 "2019-06-08T14:14:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/21 "2019-06-09T20:13:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> None of them is in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment, which makes them all extremely pro-gun, by comparison with the vast majority of the world.
Booker comes pretty close. And maybe Harris, but her official position is kinda moderate for dems. I think calling for Heller to be gotten rid of is fairly close to calling for repeal of the 2nd.
and there’s this: [https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/hawaii-democrats-want-us-congress-consider-repeal-second-amendment](https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/hawaii-democrats-want-us-congress-consider-repeal-second-amendment)
and this:
[https://psmag.com/social-justice/democrats-used-to-disagree-about-gun-control-the-2020-candidates-do-not](https://psmag.com/social-justice/democrats-used-to-disagree-about-gun-control-the-2020-candidates-do-not)
\*Just look at the most recent National Rifle Association ratings for a dozen of the presidential candidates: Harris, Booker, Joe Biden, and John Delaney rate a seven on the NRA’s one to 100 support scale. Gillibrand, Klobuchar, Sanders, Warren, Beto O’Rourke, and Sherrod Brown all rate a 13. Governor John Hickenlooper got a failing grade from the NRA for his work to pass bipartisan gun control in Colorado. Only Montana Governor Steve Bullock pulls decent NRA ratings—a 43—but he doesn’t look to be anywhere close to the top tier of candidates right now.
This agreement on gun-control issues marks a remarkable shift for the party. A little over a decade ago, most national Democratic candidates didn’t want to bring up gun control on the stump. Democrats were largely convinced that their support for gun control had cost them control of the Congress in the 1990s and the presidency in 2000, and they radically retreated on the issue, while the NRA became far more aggressive and more explicitly partisan in its support and its messaging.\*
Of course the NRA ratings are pretty worthless.
---
### Author:  [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)
#### Post date: [June 9, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/22 "2019-06-09T21:03:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> None of them is in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment, which makes them all extremely pro-gun, by comparison with the vast majority of the world.
Good to know. Thanks for the international insight.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/23 "2019-06-10T13:00:39Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#):
>
> Quite frankly, “the world” doesn’t have a say.
If everybody around you is telling you you’re mistaken about something, don’t you need to listen?
The OP would have benefited from defining “anti-gun” - using the NRA’s definition is one way, sure, but it’s not illuminating. Neither is defining any measures at all as being anti-gun, as some would have it.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/24 "2019-06-10T13:06:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Comparing gun owners (or gun rights activists) to (routinely brutalized and even murdered) black people and civil rights activists strikes me as, at best, indicative of a gross misunderstanding of history.
Even the implication that gun owners are the victims of persecution is ridiculous.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/25 "2019-06-10T13:37:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Quoth **DrDeth** :
>
> I think calling for Heller to be gotten rid of is fairly close to calling for repeal of the 2nd.
So the US had no significant legal protections for guns until 11 years ago?
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/26 "2019-06-10T13:39:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Comparing gun owners (or gun rights activists) to (routinely brutalized and even murdered) black people and civil rights activists strikes me as, at best, indicative of a gross misunderstanding of history.
On the contrary. I find the comparison quite reasonable, especially given that part of the motivation for the 14th amendment was to guarantee freed slaves the right to arms in order to resist those that would harm them. If you want to stack rank fundamental civil rights that can be an interesting exercise, but I’m comfortable with the analogy.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/27 "2019-06-10T13:46:08Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> On the contrary. I find the comparison quite reasonable, especially given that part of the motivation for the 14th amendment was to guarantee freed slaves the right to arms in order to resist those that would harm them. If you want to stack rank fundamental civil rights that can be an interesting exercise, but I’m comfortable with the analogy.
That you appear to believe that gun owners or gun activists face anything, in terms of risk to life, limb, and a fair chance at success, even remotely in the same ballpark as faced by black people during the early and mid 20th century, tells me a lot about why you’re so focused on gun rights. If I thought gun owners and activists faced anything close to that, I’d be in your side on every gun issue.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/28 "2019-06-10T13:55:54Z")
That only makes sense if there is an inalienable right to gun ownership, but not to anyone else’s life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. And if gun ownership was an immutable, inborn characteristic, not a lifestyle choice. And if gun owners were actually being persecuted in any detectable way. But none of those things are true, are they?
IOW, you’re presenting the absolutist single-issue ideologue’s view, not that of a responsible member of society. It should be no surprise if you rate any politician with something less than that fervor as “anti-gun”. And Dr. King would be appalled, I’m fairly sure.
---
### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/29 "2019-06-10T13:57:07Z")
Yeah, let’s just get this straight: the people who drafted the Constitution and its amendments had quite a few very good ideas, and several really stupid ones. The idea that black Americans could resist discrimination by blowing oppressors away, Dirty Harry style, is 100% laughable.
I mean, someone has to be fucking bonkers to think that Emmitt Till would have been fine if he had been armed.
---
### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/30 "2019-06-10T13:59:30Z")
Democratic Louisiana governor John Bel Edwards [considers himself](http://www.ontheissues.org/governor/John_Bel_Edwards_Gun_Control.htm) [pro-gun](https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/opinion/article_5c9d63d8-17eb-11e8-87fa-3fe543fe39ab.html).
That first link, [OnTheIssues.org](http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm), might be of use to the OP. I didn’t see a neat-&-tidy list available, but you can look up any individual politician you like.
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/31 "2019-06-10T14:13:24Z")
Someone would have to be even more bonkers to think that Philando Castile would have been fine if he were armed.
---
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/32 "2019-06-10T14:14:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> Yeah, let’s just get this straight: the people who drafted the Constitution and its amendments had quite a few very good ideas, and several really stupid ones.
It isn’t their fault if someone today insists on ignoring or cherrypicking what they did write, or simply stating the opposite _and attributing it to them._ For instance, there are actual people here on the actual Dope who think the Constitution \*enables \*insurrections by “militias”, even though it actually \*says \*the militia is there to \*suppress \*insurrections. How do you engage those types in any sort of useful discussion?
---
### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/33 "2019-06-10T14:39:25Z")
> [@pkbites](#):
>
> Never mind the NRA. Go to Gun Owners of America site and check their Congressional ratings. They are far more accurate than the NRA’s.
If one believes John McCain should have been graded an “F-” on gun rights.
They are the Westboro Baptist Church of gun organizations, which may be great for its members, but let’s not pretend they are in any way a mainstream, objective, or generally respected source.
---
### Author:  [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/34 "2019-06-10T15:12:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Assuming one isn’t for banning all handguns, there’s nothing hypocritical about supporting some increased gun control measures and owning a gun. If they own an AR-15 with a 30 round magazine and want to ban AR-15s and 30 round magazines, then that’s hypocritical, but not simply owning a handgun while being broadly in favor of gun control measures.
I don’t even think that’s hypocritical. Where’s the contradiction in owning something and also thinking it should be more difficult/impossible to own? I own a pistol because it’s legal and easy to do so. However, I would much prefer that nobody in the US had handguns and would readily give mine up if such laws were passed.
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/35 "2019-06-10T15:40:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> That you appear to believe that gun owners or gun activists face anything, in terms of risk to life, limb, and a fair chance at success, even remotely in the same ballpark as faced by black people during the early and mid 20th century, tells me a lot about why you’re so focused on gun rights. If I thought gun owners and activists faced anything close to that, I’d be in your side on every gun issue.
I’m not comparing the magnitude so this is not on point. I’m making an analogy. Gun rights are civil rights. Gay rights are civil rights. Trans rights are civil rights. These so called pro-gun Democrats aren’t really pro-gun just like the white moderates who King criticized weren’t sufficiently supportive of the rights of black people.
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> Yeah, let’s just get this straight: the people who drafted the Constitution and its amendments had quite a few very good ideas, and several really stupid ones. The idea that black Americans could resist discrimination by blowing oppressors away, Dirty Harry style, is 100% laughable.
>
> I mean, someone has to be fucking bonkers to think that Emmitt Till would have been fine if he had been armed.
Certainly not for Till. And not for many - arms are not some magical talisman. But in general, do you believe that blacks post civil war would have suffered the same level of harm if they were on equal footing of arms with their oppressors?
As Southern Black Codes and the KKK were disarming freedmen in the south, the Freedmen’s Bureau was extended, overriding presidential veto. The Freedmen’s Bureau Act gave ex-slaves “any of the civil rights or immunities belonging to white persons, including the right to…inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold and convey real and personal property, and to have full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and estate, including the constitutional right of bearing arms.”
When Bingham drafted and was arguing in favor of the 14th amendment, he said, that it would “enforce in its letter and its spirit the bill of rights as embodied in that Constitution.” Bingham quoted the seventh section of the Freedmen’s Bureau Bill, which provided that all persons shall “have full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of person and estate, including the constitutional right of bearing arms.”
The discussion of arms when the 14th amendment was debated was pervasive (not exclusive). Its author and supporters certainly believed that black Americans could resist oppression and had the right to defend themselves with arms.
---
### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/36 "2019-06-10T15:52:35Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> But in general, do you believe that blacks post civil war would have suffered the same level of harm if they were on equal footing of arms with their oppressors?
Without question, absolutely yes. I see a reasonable case for even more violence: today we see police shooting black men for fear they were reaching for a gun, which in too many cases is clearly an error, but in most cases is probably indicative of a bias or fear of the victims.
I have not a moment’s hesitation that the corrupt racist power structures, especially of the segregationist police of the civil rights era, would have undertook a campaign of violence using the “black man is going to kill cops to defend himself” idea as a pretext for their clearly racist causes.
> [@](#):
>
> The discussion of arms when the 14th amendment was debated was pervasive (not exclusive). Its author and supporters certainly believed that black Americans could resist oppression and had the right to defend themselves with arms.
I don’t argue that the author was insincere in his beliefs. I’m saying his beliefs were completely and outrageously stupid. To put it another way, some politicians thought founding Liberia was a great idea to bring about justice, and that too was a stupid notion.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/37 "2019-06-10T15:53:14Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> I’m not comparing the magnitude so this is not on point. I’m making an analogy. Gun rights are civil rights. Gay rights are civil rights. Trans rights are civil rights. These so called pro-gun Democrats aren’t really pro-gun just like the white moderates who King criticized weren’t sufficiently supportive of the rights of black people.
I think this analogy is dismissive and flippant to those who have actually been brutalized and worse over these rights. Gun owners and activists have not been and are not under threat of brutalization for speaking up about their rights (unless they’re black, interestingly enough). That’s why LGBTQ-rights and the mid 20th CR movements are notable – because these were people that were being brutalized and murdered. They did not have access to a fair chance at a successful life, or even in many cases a fair chance at a life free of state brutalization (and state tolerance of brutalization).
There’s nothing close to that kind of challenge or obstacle facing gun owners and gun activists. Considering how thoroughly the gun rights advocates have won in court, over and over again, the continuing fight for gun rights appears to me as much more similar to “men’s rights advocates” than to the civil righs movements of the last half century. You guys won and keep winning.
You’re not Rosa Parks, fighting against oppression. You’re (in a more apt analogy) the rich guy telling Ronald Reagan your taxes should be lower.
---
### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/38 "2019-06-10T16:16:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> Without question, absolutely yes. I see a reasonable case for even more violence: today we see police shooting black men for fear they were reaching for a gun, which in too many cases is clearly an error, but in most cases is probably indicative of a bias or fear of the victims.
>
> I have not a moment’s hesitation that the corrupt racist power structures, especially of the segregationist police of the civil rights era, would have undertook a campaign of violence using the “black man is going to kill cops to defend himself” idea as a pretext for their clearly racist causes.
That is what the corrupt racist power structures were already doing. Armed blacks were a motivator in passing the black codes across the south. Disarming this populace was necessary to oppress them. It’s like some alternate history exercise I suppose, but I disagree that blacks would have suffered the same or worse levels of harm had they been well armed. This idea is not unheard of today - the Black Panthers armed themselves when existing power structures would not enforce their rights. The Pink Pistols motto is armed gays don’t get bashed.
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I think this analogy is dismissive and flippant to those who have actually been brutalized and worse over these rights.
I on the other hand, think it’s precisely on point.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/39 "2019-06-10T16:18:46Z")
> [@Bone](#):
>
> I on the other hand, think it’s precisely on point.
Carry on then, winner. Keep winning and “fighting” for what you’ve already won while never facing state (or state-tolerated) brutalization or violence! And be sure to pat yourself on the back, and liken yourselves to Civil Rights heroes, for this incredible stance of not risking or sacrificing anything and not facing any risk of bodily harm!
---
### Author:  [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211/40 "2019-06-10T16:19:12Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#):
>
> Here you go, from the Washington Post, as of February.
>
> [Four Democratic senators have at least an A- rating from the NRA.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/15/52-senators-have-an-a-minus-nra-rating-or-higher-including-four-democrats/?utm_term=.5306c206d3ef)
> Joe Manchin III (W.Va.)
> Joe Donnelly (Ind.)
> Jon Tester (Mont.)
> Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D)
Neither Donnelly nor Heitkamp are Senators anymore.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-progun-democrats/835211.md?page=3)