# List of superheroes who have stayed dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 28, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240 "2006-03-28T13:43:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/41 "2006-03-28T22:42:34Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > No. This didn’t really happen. They didn’t really give someone the power to “punch reality.” You’re making this up, right? Right? In my opinion, it’s playing way less stupidly than it sounds. I’m sure 15 people will be right along to tell me I’m wrong, but I’ve liked it. Same with Bucky’s return in _Captain America_. Against all odds, it’s worked. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/42 "2006-03-28T22:50:57Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > In my opinion, it’s playing way less stupidly than it sounds. You’re right. It’s very well done, and in keeping with the themes and concepts the DCU’s been using forever. (In fact, it’s far better than any other option people are coming up with to explain how Jason came back.) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/43 "2006-03-29T00:07:48Z")
> [@cbawlmer](#): > > In my opinion, it’s playing way less stupidly than it sounds. I’m sure 15 people will be right along to tell me I’m wrong, but I’ve liked it. I agree actually. I was being kind of silly before. Less silly version (Infinite Crisis Spoilers): [spoiler]At the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths, Alex Luthor, the golden-age Superman and Lois Lan, and Superboy-Prime escape into a pocket universe, which is some kind of temporal nexus. Once in there, SB and Luthor start to go a bit strange. Luthor never had a childhood, and there’s no one for SB to talk to or do except watch his world die on replay over and over again. One day he flips out and starts pounding on the walls of his cosmic prison, and Luthor discovers the reality formed by the Crisis was incomplete, and the pounding causes the rough edges of history to be smoothed over. Thus, depending on your point of view, causing or resolving all the post-crisis retcons and errors. [/spoiler] I like that they’ve got an in universe explanation for continuity changes. They’re gonna happen anyway, no matter how careful the editors are. Then again, I’m a continuity anarchist, and I was apparently the only guy that liked hypertime, their previous attempt at this concept, so take my word for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/44 "2006-03-29T01:10:58Z")
Superboy: aw. Cheer up, emo kid. (This goes through my head every time I hear about this. Every. Single. Time.) > [@WotNot](#): > > As far as I know, three of the four DC Sandmen (Sandmans?) who’ve so far died have stayed that way: Wesley Dodds, Garrett Sanford and Dream/Morpheus. > > I believe Hector Hall is currently dead again, too, but he’s been through the Pearly Revolving Door nearly as often as the Dalai Lama. If you mean Daniel Hall, son of Hector and Lyta Hall, he made a brief appearance in one of the Infinite Crisis titles to get his parents out of the Dreaming and vanish (DC has pretty much blanket-banned any Vertigo characters from appearing in IC or OYL, and the Endless characters tend to get used really sparingly in the main DCU anyways). Anyways, Daniel and Morpheus aren’t really what you’d call costumed superheroes… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/45 "2006-03-29T01:31:49Z")
As far as I know, Deadman has stayed pretty dead. I mean if he didn’t, it would kind of ruin the character. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/46 "2006-03-29T02:21:33Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > If you mean Daniel Hall I don’t see any mention of Daniel in that post. The references to his predecessor as Dream and his father are both correct. Morpheus is, indeed, dead, and going to stay that way. Hector is also dead, currently. Probably Matthew-Dead, given Daniel’s appearance, and the fact that he and Lyta apparently made a deal. But dead, and in an afterlife. (By all indications, they weren’t in the Dreaming when Daniel showed up. Unless Daniel’s more malicious than he seems.) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/47 "2006-03-29T03:19:04Z")
> [@Odinoneeye](#): > > As far as I know, Deadman has stayed pretty dead. > > I mean if he didn’t, it would kind of ruin the character. That’d be a good answer, if Deadman weren’t **excluded by name in the OP**. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/48 "2006-03-29T03:19:27Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > I don’t see any mention of Daniel in that post. The references to his predecessor as Dream and his father are both correct. > > Morpheus is, indeed, dead, and going to stay that way. > > Hector is also dead, currently. Probably Matthew-Dead, given Daniel’s appearance, and the fact that he and Lyta apparently made a deal. But dead, and in an afterlife. (By all indications, they weren’t in the Dreaming when Daniel showed up. Unless Daniel’s more malicious than he seems.) Sorry, I’m probably wrong on this. I thought the line of succession went from Morpheus to Daniel directly, but I think I’m mistaken…? ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/49 "2006-03-29T03:24:57Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Sorry, I’m probably wrong on this. I thought the line of succession went from Morpheus to Daniel directly, but I think I’m mistaken…? Annnnnnd a check on Wikipedia reveals that Hector was, indeed, once the Sandman. Man, I’m eating a lot of humble pie tonight… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/50 "2006-03-29T03:32:35Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Sorry, I’m probably wrong on this. I thought the line of succession went from Morpheus to Daniel directly, but I think I’m mistaken…? Now I’m lost… Yes, Daniel took over as Dream straight from Morpheus. He was Morpheus ‘heir’, for want of a better word because he was gestated, mostly, within the Dreaming, while Hector was the Sandman. Heck died before Daniel was born, then reborn as the most recent Dr Fate, now he’s dead again. I’m not sure how either of these points is contradictory to the other… _epiphany_ Or do you not read JSA and you didn’t know Hector and Lyta were ALIVE again (until Spectre murdered them)? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/51 "2006-03-29T03:36:47Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Annnnnnd a check on Wikipedia reveals that Hector was, indeed, once the Sandman. Man, I’m eating a lot of humble pie tonight… :smack: There’s actually 3 different (but related) Sandman legacies. There’s the ‘Sandman’ - Dream of the Endless. First Morpheus, then Daniel. There’s the Sandman - Wesley Dodds, who had prophetic dreams thanks to a connection to Morpheus. His former sidekick Sanderson Hawkins (AKA Sandy the Golden Boy, AKA Sand) has taken over his prophetic dreams, but not specifically the name. Then there’s Brute and Glob’s Sandmen - Garret Sanders, Hector Hall, and Sanderson Hawkins (for about 2 issues of JSA). ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/52 "2006-03-29T03:43:05Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Now I’m lost… AAAAH. Okay, your latest post sorted it out. ‘Endless’ Sandman goes from Morpheus to Daniel, and Brute and Glob’s Sandman goes to Hector Hall, who’s the father of Daniel, so it all works out. _deep breath, exhale_ ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/53 "2006-03-29T04:03:45Z")
Ah. good, good. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/54 "2006-03-29T04:13:25Z")
So if Hector Hall is dead, who is Dr. Fate now? (I’m sorry, but I will NEVER fully understand the Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Gaiman Sandman/Dr. Fate/Silver Scarab/Fury/Wonder Woman legacy.) ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/55 "2006-03-29T04:15:40Z")
[Nabu, according to Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Fate). [Guy in commercial] “I’m so confuuuuused!” [/GIC] ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/56 "2006-03-29T04:17:12Z")
Currently there is no Dr Fate. A new one should be appearing soon enough. For a short time after Heck’s death, Sand had the helm (although Nabu was doing the driving), and after he took it off, Nabu animated his vestments all on his own, long enough to take down the Spectre (at the cost of his own life). (Or, he kept Spectre busy long enough for God to take attention of him and force him into Crispus Allen.) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/57 "2006-03-29T05:55:49Z")
What what WHAT? Crispus Allen? The black bald cop from Gotham Central, Renee Montoya’s partner? HE is the new Spectre? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/58 "2006-03-29T05:58:56Z")
From Grant Morrison’s **Zenith** series from 2000AD: Maximan {in some universes}, Masterman, Red Dragon, Masterman again. White Heat and Doctor Beat {Zenith’s parents}, Warhead {formerly Doctor Beat}, Vertex {Zenith’s alternate “nice” counterpart}, The Steel Claw and others too numerous to count, Domino. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/59 "2006-03-29T06:01:46Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > What what WHAT? Crispus Allen? The black bald cop from Gotham Central, Renee Montoya’s partner? HE is the new Spectre? Yep. Jim Corrigan murdered him about, 3, 4 issued before GC ended. Spectre was forced into him just after he was autopsied. This was in Infinite Crisis 4. (Well, the murder was in GC, the merging in IC4. Spectre, FTR, is a whiner.) ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240/60 "2006-03-29T06:08:03Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Kinda. I think the recent Magick is an alternate reality/timeline Magick and not the main continuity edition. Seems like skirting the rules to me, but ymmv. If you’re talking about the Illyana from Exiles, she’s dead too. There’s some speculation that the House of M Illyana may have survived, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-of-superheroes-who-have-stayed-dead/350240.md?page=4)