# List the oldest dated graffiti you've seen. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 16, 2000, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637 "2000-08-16T23:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/1 "2000-08-16T23:04:58Z")
On the sidewalk, not far from where I used to live, there’s a slab where Richie and Laura wrote there names in the wet concrete in 1949. I’ve also seen sidewalk graffiti from 1938. This is in L.A. where, I’ve been told, the mild climate allows such sidewalk scratchings to last much longer than in most places. They also last much longer than most buildings in L.A., but that’s another story. So what are the oldest markings that you’ve seen? ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Thrush](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@Wood\_Thrush](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Thrush)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/2 "2000-08-16T23:11:05Z")
Doesn’t polling belong in **[In My Humble Opinion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=12)**? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/3 "2000-08-16T23:23:51Z")
Yep. But I kind of like this question, so I’m going to take the liberty of rephrasing it. What is the oldest known instance of graffiti? For purposes of this thread, we’ll define graffiti to exclude such things as cave markings and ask about things written on actual walls which were written by other than the builder/owners. _Then_ we’ll move it to IMHO ;). ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/4 "2000-08-16T23:42:20Z")
I didn’t see it myself, but my roommate told me that the Pyramids are loaded with the graffiti of the French soldiers who were stranded in Egypt in 1799. George Washington purportedly carved his initials [on the Natural Bridge](http://www.tiercom.com/michal/parsonsnb.html), when he was a surveyor. I’ve seen 'em. That doesn’t make them his. The scenic overlook at Harper’s Ferry, WVA, abounds with the signatures of Civil War soldiers, as well as more recent offerings. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2000, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/5 "2000-08-16T23:55:16Z")
[Graffiti found on the walls of Pompeii](http://www.smokylake.com/Christy/graffiti.htm) Also, [here](http://www.graffiti.org/faq/critical.review.html)’s an interesting essay on graffiti as the focus for scholarly research. (By _Jane M. Gadsby_, who wishes to be credited when her page is cited.) ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/6 "2000-08-17T00:05:52Z")
I hope I’m not treading on shaky ground in terms of Manhattan’s ground rules here, but I’ve seen “johnny luvs clara” type graffiti written on the walls of caves in Rock Castle Co, KY, dating back to the 1870s. ---
**Author:** ![HerMajestyLorna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7cd45c/32.png) [@HerMajestyLorna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HerMajestyLorna)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/7 "2000-08-17T00:08:18Z")
I was Egypt a few years ago, and around the pyramids theres quite a bit of graffitti (new and old). On a temple not far from the pyramids, there is some graffiti (NOT done by the builders) from the times of ancient egypt. Im not sure about any more specific time periods, but it was ancient times. Does this count, manhatten? it was carved in. as far as i could tell, it was pictures of people. kind of stick figure-type things. ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Thrush](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@Wood\_Thrush](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Thrush)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/8 "2000-08-17T00:18:30Z")
[ul] [li][This article from _The Japan Times_](http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news170.htm) mentions graffiti that is approximately 4,000 years old. This seems to be one of the oldest I could find.[/li] [li]I’m not sure what to make of [this site](http://www.hellenic.net/greekislands/santori.htm), but I’ll quote it anyway:[/li] > [@](#): > > But the biggest surprise of all was seeing the OLDEST GRAFFITI in the world! It was done by some youths who participated in the festivals for Apollo. Their messages were left for eternity on the walls of the Sanctuary of the God. They read “Evmelos is the finest dancer!” “Ariston is beautiful!” BTW, this is probably not the very oldest, as the author claims, but I don’t blame them for being confused about this issue. [li]From [Graffiti Art: An Essay Concerning The Recognition of Some Forms of Graffiti As Art](http://www.graffiti.org/faq/stowers.html):[/li] > [@](#): > > The origins of graffiti go back to the beginnings of human, societal living. Graffiti has been found on uncovered, ancient, Egyptian monuments, and graffiti even was preserved on walls in Pompeii. [li]From [the definiton of graffiti from the _Dictionary of Art_](http://www.graffiti.org/faq/graf.def.html):[/li] > [@](#): > > … examples of graffiti have been found at such sites as Pompeii, the Domus Aurea of Emperor Nero (AD 54-68) in Rome, Hadrian’s Villa at Tivoli and the Maya site of Tikal in Mesoamerica … [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![darkcool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@darkcool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkcool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/9 "2000-08-17T00:22:57Z")
I hike alot in the desert southwest and way out in the middle of BFN I’ve see “Julianne” scrawaled in quite a few places. Early 1700s IIRC. And then there’s Newspaper Rock, which by the way has a picto that bears a STRIKING resemblance to Bart Simson but of course it pre-dates him. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/10 "2000-08-17T00:50:12Z")
Late 1800’s english writing, in a cave in the lead mining regions of Wisconsin. Writing’s by children in the early 1900’s,on a sandstone bluff by a long gone school. Indian writing on sandstone, age unknown. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/11 "2000-08-17T01:08:25Z")
Not the oldest, but there is grafitti (initials) carved in the British coronation throne from back in the days when “tourism” was a new idea. I’ve seen several examples of grafitti at Pompei. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/12 "2000-08-17T03:45:06Z")
I was all ready to nominate cave paintings made some 30,000 years ago, when I read Manny’s rules. Oh well. (But I’m going to include a link to the [Chauvet-Pont-d’Arc cave](http://mistral.culture.fr/culture/arcnat/chauvet/en/gvpda-d.htm) for anyone who’s interested, just because it is so cool.) Talking about graffiti in Egypt reminded me of the story of Giovanni Belzoni, a former circus strongman, who started digging up Egyptian antiquities to supply the British Museum. He was the first to enter the pyramid of Khafre at Giza - but he was so concerned about getting credit for his discovery, he wrote his name on the wall of the burial chamber! A former resident of our house made a note on the wall in our garage: Walt Battery June 22, 1946. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/13 "2000-08-17T04:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > George Washington purportedly carved his initials [on the Natural Bridge](http://www.tiercom.com/michal/parsonsnb.html), when he was a surveyor. I’ve seen 'em. That doesn’t make them his. One of the few physical remainders of the Lewis and Clark Expedition is some graffiti carved on a Montana cliff face by (I think) William Clark. As far as I know, it’s authentic. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/14 "2000-08-17T14:11:45Z")
[url=“[http://www.nps.gov/fola/regcliff.htm](http://www.nps.gov/fola/regcliff.htm)”]Register cliff\* in Wyoming along the Oregon Trail was a popular spot for graffiti in the early 1800’s. I left mine there in the early 70’s, but I had to scratch out some guy named Jim Bridger. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/15 "2000-08-17T14:25:11Z")
An article on Pompeii that I read once mentioned some graffiti that wasn’t listed in the link above. > [@](#): > > Everyone writes on walls, except me. ---
**Author:** ![Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/16 "2000-08-17T14:27:41Z")
The Reichstaag has some interesting graffitti left from the allies. IIRC they even put up plexiglass to protect the old soldier’s comments. I wonder how often the limerick about “Hitler’s only got one Ball” appears. ---
**Author:** ![yESTERDAY\_mAN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a87d85/32.png) [@yESTERDAY\_mAN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yESTERDAY_mAN)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/17 "2000-08-17T14:33:22Z")
1. On Plymouth Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Zumba\_The\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/779978/32.png) [@Zumba\_The\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zumba_The_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/18 "2000-08-17T14:37:01Z")
The oldest graffiti that I have personally seen was on the Trevi Fountain in Rome. I was sitting on the marble and looking at the fountain and wondering why so many people felt the need to deface such a beautiful monument by carving their names in the marble. I felt a bit better about it when I started reading the graffiti and found one particularly deep old looking carving which was a name and the roman numerals for 1827. I wish I could remember the name! I took a picture but it didn’t come out. I figure that if they were carving graffiti in the fountain in 1827 you can hardly get angry at the kids today! ---
**Author:** ![MadHatter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@MadHatter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadHatter)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/19 "2000-08-17T14:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*Yep. But I kind of like this question, so I’m going to take the liberty of rephrasing it. > \*\* Mr. Consistency is at it again. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637/20 "2000-08-17T14:50:55Z")
I, too, have seen the grafitti in Pompeii. To be technical, though, although we know it’s all 79 A.D. or older, it was not dated (it would be “A.U.C.” or “in the x year of emperor y” or whatever, of course, not “A.D.”). In my home town in New Jersey someone carved a date from 1863 into the steps of a church (stone steps, by the way – a determined grafittist, or one that didn’t care about his knife) which became the town library. It was July 2, 1863, if I recall. No one knows exactly why. The official town history speculates it might be the date they received word about a Civil War battle. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/list-the-oldest-dated-graffiti-youve-seen/29637.md?page=2)