# Listening for time signatures **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 16, 2001, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791 "2001-10-16T19:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/21 "2001-10-18T13:29:49Z")
Actually, this [site](http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/12.html) will back up my assertion that “America” is 6/8 alternating with 3/4. And yes, it is a hemiloa, as **Moe** stated. This [site](http://www.arts.ilstu.edu/~staylor/music205/hemiola/tsld009.htm), though not informative also states that the meters alternate. And there’s another discussion [here](http://listproc.ucdavis.edu/archives/banjo-l/log9911/0631.html) about the subject. And [this](http://www.pitt.edu/~deben/meters.html) site also states the meter changes. This [site](http://nextdch.mty.itesm.mx/~plopezg/Kaplan/essays/herrmann/herrcase2.html) seems to indicate that this rhythm is, in fact, normally written as alternating measures of 6/8 and 3/4. Once again, I’m not saying necessarily that “America” is in fact scored that way. But is it accurate to say that the song is in 6/8? I would argue no. You can just as easily assert the song is in 3/4, with the first bar of 3/4 being subdivided into two (as two dotted quarters.) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/22 "2001-10-18T17:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SolomonGrundy \* > **Not exactly useful information, but one of the most interesting records I own is “Take Five” by the Dave Brubeck Quartet. I’d been listening to it for a couple of years before I actually read the liner notes and found out that the whole album is “about” wacky time signatures.** Another album like this is Captain Beyond’s self-titled debut, released (IIRC) in 1972. It’s an experimental rock album with no shortage of odd time signatures and various other musical marvels. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/23 "2001-10-18T21:21:11Z")
Another fun one is _Apocalypse in 9/8_ section of _Supper’s Ready_ from the Genesis album **Foxtrot**. The musicians are playing in 9/8, but when Peter Gabriel starts singing, he sings in 4/4. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/24 "2001-10-19T03:02:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lawoot \* > \*\*Another fun one is _Apocalypse in 9/8_ section of _Supper’s Ready_ from the Genesis album **Foxtrot**. The musicians are playing in 9/8, but when Peter Gabriel starts singing, he sings in 4/4. \*\* Actually, I don’t believe this is true. Peter Gabriel is not singing in a different time signature. The vocal phrases just end early leaving long rests before beat one comes around again. If he began a vocal phrase on the 5 and then another on the 9 (and then another on the following 3 and so on) then I would agree. However, I do believe that you can make a case that the keyboard solo is at times in 6/8 and now that I think about it I believe there is even a point where you can count it in 7. I’m not sure but if you are curious I’ll listen to it and post the time on the CD(m’s"). Incidentally _Riding the Scree_ from {b]The Lamb…\*\* does something similar. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/25 "2001-10-19T11:28:36Z")
I just remembered a more conventional 5/4 being used in pop music… Juliana Hatfield’s “Spin the Bottle,” which is also featured in the Reality Bites soundtrack. Also, the Smashing Pumpkin’s swan song “Untitled” (sample lyrics: “Should I know/ All we’re missin/ What’s to stop/ What they’re missin/ To be in love/ To feel love/ All around.”) is mostly in 6/4, with the bridge/chorus in 4/4. The break in Rush’s “Tom Sawyer” is is 7/4. Led Zeppelin’s “The Ocean,” IIRC, is basically 4/4 and 7/8 alternating or 15/8, if you want to look at things that way…that is, if I’m remembering the song correctly. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/26 "2001-10-19T16:01:11Z")
And Pink Floyd’s “Money” is in 7/4, shifting to 4/4 in the bridge. (I’m amazed nobody’s mentioned this one yet …) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/27 "2001-10-19T16:45:12Z")
What about “Spoonman” by Soundgarden - it’s in 7/4 or 7/8 - I am not able to figure out the difference. But overall, I think it is fun to count it out and know how to end on the right spot. Another one that I don’t know has a non 4/4 time sig, but may just have a situation where they are “turning the beat around” is Sade’s “Turn my Back on You” - I think it’s on her third album and it has a nice slow funk to it, but it alternates which beats it emphasizes - fun to try to follow… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/28 "2001-10-19T17:14:41Z")
I’m not familiar with “Spoonerman” (at least not by name. I’m almost certain I must have heard it before) but one way to figure out whether it’s 7/4 or 7/8 is to feel where the beat falls. Take “Money,” for instance. The beats always fall on the quarter. If you tap your foot to it, you’ll probably tap 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. Now a song in 7/8, the pulse will either be 3-2-2, 2-2-3, or (most rarely) 2-3-2. This means you will be tapping dotted quarter-quarter-quarter or some variant thereof. (At least that’s how I parse the pulse.) It’s a much different feel…even if you play “Money” double time, it’ll feel 7/4, because of the grouping of the beats. The drive of 7/8 is derived from it being neither a triple meter or a duple meter, but rather a mix of the two. 7/4, in “Money”, is essentially duple meter (although it is swung. I suppose an arguement can even be made for calling it 21/8…naaah. Swung 7/4 is much easier to deal with.) The groupings of the notes are all in twos. I don’t know if this all makes sense – it would be much easier to play a couple examples for you so you can hear the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/29 "2001-10-19T18:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SolomonGrundy \* > \*\*Not exactly useful information, but one of the most interesting records I own is “Take Five” by the Dave Brubeck Quartet. I’d been listening to it for a couple of years before I actually read the liner notes and found out that the whole album is “about” wacky time signatures. > \*\* Just a nitpick here. The album is called “Time Out” [get it?], in which “Take Five” is the most well-known track. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2001, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791/30 "2001-10-19T18:32:18Z")
If you guys wanna have some fun, try your hand at _Pyramid Song_ by **Radiohead**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/listening-for-time-signatures/87791.md?page=1)