# Literacy Tests In, Poll Taxes Out **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030 "2009-11-18T15:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/41 "2009-11-19T17:17:40Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I did come to the DMV with 10 dollars cash if that helps. At the time, I felt that even if it was more than 10 dollars I could use my debit or credit card. No go. The only point I made about American Express is that the rich are likely to have that card than the poor. Am I wrong? No seriously. Am I? Or is that statement too dumb for you to comment on as well? > > If something is required by the State, it should be **free** , **low cost** , or have **multiple ways to pay**. That’s my point. \ I sure didn’t have to pay for my Social Security card (even when it was misplaced). Did you? > > - Honesty I’m missing something here. You’re saying a driver’s licensed is required in Ohio? The reason they don’t accept VISA/MC is that they don’t want you to buy the ID on credit. Amex is a “charge” card, not a credit card. Admittedly a small distinction. Or else Amex cut a deal with the DMV to lower their per transaction fee in exchange for the exclusivity. This is not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/42 "2009-11-19T17:19:08Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Amex is a “charge” card, not a credit card. American Express has had a credit-based product for almost a decade now. That’s not the difference - it’s because of the fee contracts, as both you and I pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/43 "2009-11-19T17:26:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > .. great disdain for uniformed voters, defined as “those voters that don’t agree with my causes.” It’s not limited to liberals or conservatives. Good point. Such disdain, even if it _were_ justified, should be confined to voters who are actually wearing uniforms. Otherwise, it would be silly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/44 "2009-11-19T18:20:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Good point. Such disdain, even if it _were_ justified, should be confined to voters who are actually wearing uniforms. Otherwise, it would be silly. Yes, heaven forfend the advance of silliness. Or misspellings. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/45 "2009-11-19T23:35:49Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Drivers Licenses and ID Cards are not required by the State. A social security number is required to be employed in this country, which is a de facto requirement of existence. thanks for playing. I’m not going to split hairs with you. I disagree. Getting a job isn’t a Constitutional Right. No one is owed a job upon birth. But, the Right to Vote is Constitutionally guaranteed yet you (general you) wish to hinge that Right on procuring a license that is not free or low cost. If the DMV do ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/46 "2009-11-19T23:45:45Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > I’m missing something here. You’re saying a driver’s licensed is required in Ohio?. If I want to vote. Yes. It was explained to me that if you receive a driver’s license from another State, that license will be used as an operator’s license and an identification card. I was told, for example, that one cannot hold an operator’s license from Minnesota and a State ID from Ohio. So in order for me to have an opportunity to vote in 2010, I need to fork over cash for a new card (despite the fact that my out-of-state operator’s license doesn’t expire until 2011). > [@BwanaBob](#): > > The reason they don’t accept VISA/MC is that they don’t want you to buy the ID on credit. Amex is a “charge” card, not a credit card. Admittedly a small distinction. Or else Amex cut a deal with the DMV to lower their per transaction fee in exchange for the exclusivity. This is not uncommon. I have a few VISA cards. The one I use the most is a \*\*debit card \*\*from JPMorgan Chase that has a VISA logo. If the of State of Ohio wants to ensure I don’t put it on a credit card, they could require me to enter my pin. Final thoughts: I am not hung up on the fact that I need to show identiication. I agree with this. But requiring people to get an identification card when it’s not free amounts to a poll tax. I was turned away from getting a State ID. What if I were homeless or bankrupt? I’d never have a chance to vote strictly due to financial reasons: This is not how America should be. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/47 "2009-11-19T23:56:00Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I’m not going to split hairs with you. I disagree. Getting a job isn’t a Constitutional Right. No one is owed a job upon birth. But, the Right to Vote is Constitutionally guaranteed yet you (general you) wish to hinge that Right on procuring a license that is not free or low cost. > > If the DMV do An Ohio Driver’s License or ID card is not a requirement to register to vote, or to actually vote, in Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/48 "2009-11-20T00:31:53Z")
Can you name any other photo IDs that are accepted? Can you name some that do not require the identified person to spend money to obtain? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/49 "2009-11-20T00:43:08Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Can you name any other photo IDs that are accepted? > > Can you name some that do not require the identified person to spend money to obtain? photo ID is not a requirement. here it is straight from the Ohio Secretary of State’s office: > [@](#): > > NOTICE TO ALL VOTERS > (R.C. 3503.28(A)(6)) “Voters must bring identifi cation to the polls in order to verify identity. Identifi cation may include a current and valid photo identifi cation; a military identifi cation, or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document, other than a notice of election or a voter registration notifi cation sent by a board of elections, that shows the voter’s name and current address. Voters who do not provide one of these documents will still be able to vote by providing the last four digits of the voter’s social security number and by casting a provisional ballot. Voters who do not have any of these forms of identification, including a social security number, > will still be able to vote by signing an affi rmation swearing to the voter’s identity under penalty of election falsifi cation and by casting a provisional ballot.” (Effective September 12, 2008) [http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/VRinstructions.pdf](http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/VRinstructions.pdf) > [@](#): > > Registering by Mail > If you register by mail and do not provide either a current Ohio driver’s license number \*\*or \*\*the last four digits of your Social Security number… [emphasis added] [http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/VRform.pdf](http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/publications/election/VRform.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/50 "2009-11-20T00:49:04Z")
I don’t mind the idea of photo IDs, such as a driver’s license or state ID. Who over 18 doesn’t have one. As for literacy, you can be very well informed without knowing how to read or write. With TV and radio. I know very smart people who would never watch CNN they perfer FOX News. It’s there choice. Although they can tell you all about the parts of an atom, they refuse to see any point but conservative. And it works the other way too. Right now when you go to vote in Illinois you sign a sheet and the polling workers compare signatures. In the old days they used to post the name of all registered voters with their address on bulletin boards throughout the area, that way anyone could challange anyone. In fact when I first moved back to Chicago, I got challanged. I was challanged from 1995 to 2004, which was the first local or national election I wasn’t challanged in. That means when I went to vote, someone filed a notice and I had to prove I still lived at the address I was at. People don’t vote for what’s best, they vote in their own self interests. Being well informed isn’t going to change this once bit. If I don’t have kids, I don’t care about schools, even though I realize that children are good for a society as a whole, and I have to live in that society. But I’m not gonna vote for anything that raises my taxes to pay for programs for children. People vote for all sorts of reasons, knowing the issues doesn’t matter. I have talked to people that tell me why they voted for Obama or McCain then after hearing their reason I explain they are incorrect. They still have their mind made up and vote for their candidate anyway. Usually in most places you find people voting AGAINST people instead of FOR people. Like anything education or literacy or whatever doesn’t mean you’re actually going to USE it. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/51 "2009-11-20T00:58:49Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > An Ohio Driver’s License or ID card is not a requirement to register to vote, or to actually vote, in Ohio. Well, thats just dandy. Do I just bring my lease to voting booth? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/52 "2009-11-20T01:00:34Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Well, thats just dandy. Do I just bring my lease to voting booth? yes, if you’re too cheap to pay the 25 bucks for an ID card. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/53 "2009-11-20T03:49:34Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > photo ID is not a requirement. Ah. Gotcha. Carry on, and thank you for the information. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/54 "2009-11-20T09:00:26Z")
> [@](#): > > So in order for me to have an opportunity to vote in 2010, I need to fork over cash for a new card (despite the fact that my out-of-state operator’s license doesn’t expire until 2011). Generally, when you move from one state to another, you only have a month or two to get a driver’s license/ID card in the new state. If you’re a student, or in the military, or are otherwise only a temporary resident of the state, this changes. However, if you want to VOTE in the new state, then you are changing your state of residence. IOW, your old driver’s license is no longer valid, no matter what the expiration date says on the DL itself, and you need to get a new one from Ohio anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/55 "2009-11-20T09:57:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. But I support controls that would decrease the risk of falsification. For example, comparison of signatures from registration to ballot would perhaps be a good approach. Presuming that someone still has the ability to write. Or that their signature hasn’t changed in the time when they registered (which could have been decades prior) to the current time. I registered to vote half my lifetime ago. My signature now doesn’t really resemble my signature then, pre-arthritis. Signature verification is good, but disproportionately disenfranchises the disabled. > [@Markxxx](#): > > I don’t mind the idea of photo IDs, such as a driver’s license or state ID. Who over 18 doesn’t have one. You’ve already been told that right here in this thread. In broad strokes: the poor, minorities, the disabled, the elderly. To understand why let’s start from the beginning. This is the process of getting state ID in Pennsylvania: [ul] [li]You have to know where to go to get ID and what documentation and money to bring with you. You can find this out online. If you are poor and don’t have internet access, finding this information can be extraordinarily difficult. (Yes, libraries have computers. Libraries also have limited hours or, in some places, like the _entirety of the city of Philadelphia_, the 6th largest city in the U.S., no longer exist at all.)[/li][li]You’ll need an official Birth Certificate or Passport. An official Birth Certificate costs $10 and you have to either go to a State Office Building (not available everywhere in the state) and apply in person, which means during work hours M-F or print a form from the website (see internet access issues from above) or apply online, which requires a credit card and ups the cost to $18. A passport costs $100 and the majority of Americans _don’t_ have one.[/li][li]You have to have _two_ proofs of residency, which are limited to the sorts of documents that homeowners/leaseholders have. If you live with someone, and your name isn’t on the lease or the utility bills, you _have to bring the homeowner/leaseholder and **their** ID with you_ when you apply for your ID, and you’ll still need to bring some of your mail to show that you live where you say you live.[/li][li]If your name has changed because of adoption, marriage or divorce, you’ll have to bring certified copies of those documents with you, as well. Those are also not available for free nor easily obtained if you’re not online.[/li][li]Now you have to go to apply for the ID, with your second person in tow, and you’ll have to know that even though you’re not getting a driver’s license, you’ll still need to go to a driver’s license center. Which are in places designed to be easily accessed by a car. There are a few in the cities that are on public transportation lines. If you live in suburban or rural counties, I hope you can get a ride. (That might require a _third_ person be involved in the process.) Fortunately these are open on Saturdays for those who work M-F. You’ll need to have a _check or money order_ for $12. Not cash, not a debit or credit card. And plenty of time to sit and wait. Gotta bring your kids along? Oh, they’ll have a swell time. Have a physical problem and can’t sit or stand for a long time. Oops. Sorry.[/li][/ul] Now, getting the picture of why not everyone over 18 doesn’t have a state issued ID? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030/56 "2009-11-20T12:23:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > IANilliterate, and so maybe I just don’t get it. Almost spit coffee all over my keyboard. It’s early, my sense of humor synapses aren’t all firing yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literacy-tests-in-poll-taxes-out/518030.md?page=2)