# Literal Translation or Nice Anecdotes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2000, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379 "2000-05-02T19:06:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cactus\_Jack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Cactus\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cactus_Jack)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/21 "2000-05-04T18:40:55Z")
It could very well be that the “two contradictory ideas” thing is what Orwell called “doublethink.” And it could be those damn Jesuits are sneakier than I thought! 🙂 I don’t know. I was just paraphrasing the man best I could remember. Thought it was an interesting point. ---
**Author:** ![Tinker\_Grey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tinker_grey/32/8136_2.png) [@Tinker\_Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinker_Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/22 "2000-05-04T22:12:08Z")
Daniel said: > [@](#): > > Tinker: Cousin or kinswoman, makes no diff, in any case they are both Levites, as a Hebrew Jew of that period would only refer to one of their tribe as “kin”. Yes, I use the old KJV, as it has been around a while, and most have a copy. The language is great also. I, too, enjoy the language. My point was, though, is that versions generally considered more accurate don’t use the word cousin. My other point was that if Mary’s father was of the line of David and Mary’s mother had Levite blood in her, then the lineage in Luke **could be** Mary’s line back to David even if she was partially Levite. Caveat: I am _not_ saying definitively that this is the case. I am just saying that you cannot eliminate the possibility by asserting that Mary had Levite blood. Tinker ---
**Author:** ![Tinker\_Grey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tinker_grey/32/8136_2.png) [@Tinker\_Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinker_Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2000, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/23 "2000-05-04T22:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Matthew 22 > 42. Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. > 43. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, > 44. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? > 45. If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? This passage is **not** generally taken to mean that Jesus was asserting that the Messiah was not of the line of David. Apparently, the scholars of the day understood to be a messianic prophecy (implied by Jesus’ relating his question to the passage). Note that by saying “in spirit”, Jesus was implying that David was divinely inspired. Verse 45 suggests then that the passage indicates that _whoever_ the messiah was, he was either eternal, part of the Godhead, or both. > [@](#): > > 1. And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions. There may be other explanations for the passage, but his reasoning fairly well stumped the scholars of the day. Tinker ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/24 "2000-05-05T02:47:46Z")
Whussup with that Matthew genealogy, anyway. Adam begat Cain, Cain begat etc., etc., begat Noah, Noah begat, Ham, Ham begat etc., etc. begat Abraham, Abraham begat Isaac, Isaac begat Jacob, Jacob begat etc., etc., begat Jesse, Jesse begat David, David begat Solomon, Solomon begat etc., etc., begat Joachim, Joachim begat Mary (disclaimer: this list has been tampered with by kaylasdad99). It’s patrilineal all the way down to Mary, then all over sudden it turns _matrilineal?_ And while we’re on the subject, they didn’t have Jewish **Juniors** , right? Bad luck in case the Angel of Death picks the wrong bedroom, right? So how did it come to be that King Herod was able to 1.) chase Baby Jesus into Egypt; 2.) die, making it safe for Baby Jesus to come back; 3.) present Salome with the head of John the Baptist (who reportedly baptised an _adult_ Jesus) on a platter; and 4.) hand Jesus over to the Roman procurator for trial, presumably in that order? Was the Ark of the Covenant really a _time machine?_ Gee, no wonder the Nazis wanted it. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/25 "2000-05-05T02:55:01Z")
Tinker: Isaac Asimov’s Guide to the Bible, postulates what I mentioned, and so did another coupla sources I don’t have on hand. I THINK, one of them might have been the Anchor Bible. After rereading, I think they are right, but JC WAS speaking rather evasively. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/26 "2000-05-05T04:33:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > So how did it come to be that King Herod was able to 1.) chase Baby Jesus into Egypt; 2.) die, making it safe for Baby Jesus to come back… hand Jesus over to the Roman procurator for trial, presumably in that order? > \*\* From “Funk & Wagnalls Knowledge Center”: HEROD THE GREAT (73-4 BC), Roman-backed king of Judea (37-4 BC), portrayed as a tyrant in Christian and Jewish tradition. According to Matt. 2:16 he tried to kill the infant Jesus by massacring all the male babies in Bethlehem. HEROD ANTIPAS (21 BC-AD 39), tetrarch of Galilee and Perea (4 BC-AD 39), son of Herod the Great. He was censured for his marriage _(to his niece)_ by John the Baptist, whose execution Antipas was enticed into ordering (see Mark 6:14-29) by the machinations of Herodias through her daughter, Salome. Antipas is the Herod most frequently mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible; it was to him that Jesus Christ was sent by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea (see Luke 23:7-15). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/27 "2000-05-05T05:50:36Z")
Thanks for the info, Apollyon. Of course you _could_ have just said: > [@](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, they didn’t have Jewish Juniors, right? Bad luck in case the Angel of Death picks the wrong bedroom, right? Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/28 "2000-05-05T05:59:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course you _could_ have just said:\*\*Wrong. > \*\* But I don’t know if you are wrong as such. The Herods were an odd bunch, and I have this vague memory that despite Herod the Great being a practicing Jew the family may have been romanicised (however you spell that). Herod the Great’s sons were Herod Antipas, Archelaus, and Herod Phillip. Herod Antipas has a son Herod Agrippa who spent his youth at the court of the Roman emperor Tiberius, and his son was Herod Agrippa II. So the Herod’s certainly had “juniors”, but I don’t know if this was normal for Jews or not. Cheers, Martin ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379/29 "2000-05-05T20:39:17Z")
Chef Troy wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “All right. But you need to be able to hold the two contradictory ideas in your mind at the same time. That’s not only faith, it’s genius.” > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this what George Orwell called “doublethink”? “I believe **because** it is absurd!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literal-translation-or-nice-anecdotes/18379.md?page=1)