# Literary characters who come to symbolize the opposite of how they were portrayed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 24, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304 "2010-06-24T01:52:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/141 "2010-06-28T03:55:05Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > To the parable’s original audience, it would have been anything _but_ automatic to put the term “good” together with the term “Samaritan.” As my pastor once pointed out, the individual (a Jewish “lawyer” who asked “who is my neighbour?”) Jesus was directing the story at couldn’t even bring himself to say it: **Luke 10:36-37** [Jesus asked,] Which now of these three [a Jewish priest, a Levite, or the Samaritan], thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And [the lawyer] said, He that shewed mercy on him. “He that showed mercy on him”, rather than “the Samaritan”. > [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve known literally dozens of Nimrods (promounced Neem-ROAD) - it’s a very common name in my age group. All of them would be surprised to hear that Americans think their name sounds funny. I read an interview with some famous supermodel from an Eastern European country (don’t recall her name now) who said her brother’s name is Zoltan. She said she was very surprised when she came to America to learn that the name “Zoltan” is considered a “funny” name, most suitable for characters like … comedic space aliens. She said that back in her country, it’s considered a very masculine-sounding name. As to the OP: I nominate Dick. Dick started out as the hero of many beloved children’s books. Now, his name is invoked to describe somebody who’s being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/142 "2010-06-28T04:14:32Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Captain Bligh, a real person, was perhaps not as bad as _Mutiny on the Bounty_ portrays, and the mutineers were not that good. Nevertheless, he wasn’t a great guy either. Eighteen of the _Bounty_’s crew stayed aboard as mutineers. The other eighteen accompanied Bligh in the ship’s launch on his epic 3600 mile voyage to Timor. He later testified that four of the “mutineers” were actually loyalists he had to leave behind simply because there wasn’t room for them in the launch. This rather suggests that while he may have been an asshole (apparently, he was very very sarcastic) he wasn’t a sadist. > [@minlokwat](#): > > **King Midas** was a greedy, rat bastard who was granted his wish of turning everything to gold in order to teach him a lesson. This ability quickly, predictably turns into a curse with the dual moral of being careful of what you wish for in addition to stop being a greedy, rat bastard. I’m afraid you’ve got this completely wrong. According to Ovid, Midas was the kindhearted but poor king of Lydia, who took in and sheltered Dionysus’ fosterfather, Silenus. As a reward, Dionysus granted Midas’ golden wish. But when his food and wine (and, according to one author, daughter) turned to gold, he prayed to the god to take his gift away. Dionysus told Midas to bathe in the river Pactolus; this apparently transferred his orogenic ability to the river. The river Pactolus was in fact a gold-bearing river in Lydia, in Asia Minor, and the Lydians minted the first coins (that we know of, anyway). ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/143 "2010-06-28T14:54:34Z")
\*\*\*The Sound of Music \*\*\*has given audiences the impression that Captain von Trapp was a stern, cold disciplinarian whose heart was melted by the fun-loving Maria, who taught him to be a happier, more mellow person and a more loving father. In reality, all the von Trapp children agree, Captain von Trapp was a warm, jolly fellow, and Maria was the disciplinarian of the family. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/144 "2010-06-28T16:45:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > \*\*\*The Sound of Music \*\*\*has given audiences the impression that Captain von Trapp was a stern, cold disciplinarian whose heart was melted by the fun-loving Maria, who taught him to be a happier, more mellow person and a more loving father. > > In reality, all the von Trapp children agree, Captain von Trapp was a warm, jolly fellow, and Maria was the disciplinarian of the family. Indeed, in Stowe, Vermont, where the family settled after the war, Maria is remembered as (1) “Stowe’s premier tourist attraction”, and (2) “That old bitch”. She was indeed a formidable personality. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/145 "2010-07-12T15:53:09Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Bugs called Elmer Nimrod because in their initial and most subsequent encounters, Elmer was hunting [del]wabbits[/del] **r** abbits. Certainly. But because everything Bugs Bunny says sounds like an insult, those not familiar with the biblical character assumed calling Elmer a ‘little Nimrod’ was snark. Therefore, being a nimrod must be a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/146 "2010-07-12T16:12:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The whole “innocent victim” notion is a red herring. Nabokov was commenting on American notions of sex and sexuality in the book. By using a pre-pubescent girl (something the movies always fail on, since they must use post-pubescent girls) to demonstrate his thesis, he strips away all the baggage that normally hides adult sexuality. It’s very similar to the way science fiction writers set their stories in alien worlds or times, to rid the reader of the crutch of familiar context. > > Lolita cannot be simply a victim. That would rob the novel of all of its complexity. She is and must be complicit in his outrages. She is a victim, and a survivor, and a seducer, and a bland average American woman blinded by our culture. Your uncomfortableness with all this is exactly what Nabokov wanted. OK. So when we use the word “lolita” today we’re talking about a sexually precocious girl below the age of consent. It sounds to me like that describes the character in the book; or at least, the criterion in the OP that the archetype be the opposite of the original character does not apply. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/147 "2010-07-12T18:18:33Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > **Frankenstein** ’s Monster is frequently portrayed as tragic and misunderstood. In the novel, he is neither, just a calculating killer. It’s been years since I read the novel, but my recollection is exactly the opposite of your statement. . ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/148 "2010-07-12T18:32:58Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Nah…we’d only think it was funny if it was pronounced “Nim-rod”. Which we totally would. ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/149 "2010-07-12T20:20:26Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > To quote myself, “Now there may not be a single definitive source in his case, but many of our modern tellings are based on [or] influenced by **Le Mort d’Arthur** , and in that he can be a right bastard.” Geoffrey of Monmouth’s account of Arthur wasn’t the first either. (For that matter, neither were Shakespeare’s versions of **Romeo and Juliet** or **Hamlet**.) But I think it’s fair to say that Mallory’s work is the primary source for the most influential later tellings, such as White’s **The Once and Future King** , Tennyson’s **Idylls of the King** or Boorman’s **Excalibur**. Yes, there have been many attempts to strip away late-medieval influences and present a “real” history of Arthur, but most of them have more or less failed to make much of an impression on the popular consciousness. One I found very much worth reading was Jack Whyte’s telling of the tale. It centers on Merlin (named as Caius Merlinus Brittanicus) and is the story of an attempt to preserve civilization as they know it in the power vacuum of the ebb of the Roman Empire. He skillfully weaves the Arthurian legends into stories in historic context that have a compelling feel of reality - Excalibur is “drawn” from a stone; drawn in the blacksmith sense from a nickel-iron meteorite (which is basically stainless steel) and many other such. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/150 "2010-07-12T20:32:00Z")
**Krokodil** said: > [@](#): > > **Frankenstein** ’s Monster is frequently portrayed as tragic and misunderstood. In the novel, he is neither, just a calculating killer. **TreacherousCretin** said: > [@](#): > > It’s been years since I read the novel, but my recollection is exactly the opposite of your statement. He is tragic and misunderstood. He is a brilliant and caring man who is feared and loathed purely because of his appearance. He is rejected by his creator, not for any deficit of character or being, but merely because the creator cannot fathom the creation. He is abhored and reviled purely for his grotesqueness, not for his behavior or intentions. But then because of all that, he retaliates against his creator. In that he is a calculating and malicious killer. He feels justified, but he isn’t, for he strikes out not at Dr. Frankenstein himself (who the monster needs), but through innocents close to the doctor. **Nobody** said: > [@](#): > > I never read the novel, but I heard that he was very different than how we see him in movies. I heard that far from being mute and not very bright, that he spoke fluent French and was at least of average intelligence. However, I never heard that he was a calculating killer. That’s interesting. Thanks. In the novel he is not just of average intelligence, he is rather brilliant. He becomes fluent in several languages and studies philosophy and art. By the time he returns to Dr. Frankenstein, he is very articulate. He does, however, begin life mute and confused and uneducated, and after escaping Dr. Frankenstein’s lab, sets up residence under an old farmhouse, where he begins learning about people and language. **smiling bandit** said: > [@](#): > > Canute, a real man, is often depicted as trying to hold back the waves as an expresion of his insane hubris. The real point of the story was that Canute was shaming his sycophantic advisors and telling them to shut up with the praise and give him some useful information. Linky? Wiki was unhelpful. **Ronald C. Semone** said: > [@](#): > > And then there is Job. Today someone who behaves in a Job-like manner accepts what fate gives him or her without complaining. In the bible, of course, Job takes it for a while and then curses God and spends the rest of the book railing against God. A prior discussion on Job: > **[Does anyone understand the book of Job?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=134522)** > > So I was reading the book of Job in the Bible, and I got confused. Partially because it’s difficult to keep straight what people are actually saying (because there are long strings of verses exalting god’s power). But what struck me was that it... You are correct. From Dex’s column: > **[Were there originally two endings to the Book of Job?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343087/were-there-originally-two-endings-to-the-book-of-job)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD > [@](#): > > In Chapter 3, Job laments his fate, says that he cannot stand the burdens of life and wishes he were dead. For the next 25 chapters, there is a pattern or cycle: each of the three friends makes a speech, and Job responds. …Job is angry with his friends for not being helpful, and with God for being unjust. His tone is fiercely accusatory and argumentative, that the universe is not governed by morality, and he calls God to justice (might does not make right.) Job calls God a capricious tyrant (9:18), a savage beast (16:7), and a treacherous assailant (16:1). That hardly sounds like patiently accepting his fate. **Skald the Rhymer** said: > [@](#): > > I will have to look it up when I get home, but I can think of at least one Biblical historian–maybe Jack Miles, in God: A Biography–who opines that Job actually wins the argument with Yahweh, and both of them know it. Yahweh, in making such extensive reference to his greater power, is conceding that He cannot win the debate except by violence; i.e., that He is in the wrong. There are certainly different interpretations of that part of the book. One version is that God is throwing around his might to cow Job into submission. Another take is that God is straightforward saying “Were you there at the creation? Can you make a star from nothingness? How can you possibly understand me and my motivations? Who are you to question me?” It is about the question of evil: Why do bad things happen to good people? Job is the essential good person who has bad things befall him, not because he has sinned and offended God, but merely because shit happens. \*\*smiling bandit \*\* said: > [@](#): > > First, Job doesn’t complain much. In fact, he loses damn near everything but his life, and is sick and miserable and poeple are saying he must be awful. Then, and only then, does he complain. Briefly. See above 25 chapters does not equal briefly. > [@](#): > > If your historian interpreted it as saying God admitted he’s wrong, then he’s an idiot no matter what credentials he has behind him. God in the story (and this is a very unusual story in jewish history, much less historically based and very much a tall tale built to illustrate a point) is there to basically tell people that good people can suffer, too. It’s basically a giant middle finger to the common belief then and now of Karma. That is certainly the traditional interpretation. As I said, a common reading of the text conveys a different meaning to modern ears. **Ají de Gallina** said: > [@](#): > > David and Goliath. > Many people seem to forget that David won, so they said “it was like David” meaning he lost to the big guy. Where do you encounter that usage? The closest I’ve seen is describing a situation of little guy vs big guy as David vs. Goliath, with the implication that the scenario may appear over matched, but the little guy has an ace in his sleeve or the virtue of being right or something. **Thudlow Boink** said: > [@](#): > > The Good Samaritan. > > Nowadays people call anyone who helps out a stranger in need a “good samaritan” without seeing anything ironic or contradictory in the phrase. To the parable’s original audience, it would have been anything but automatic to put the term “good” together with the term “Samaritan.” I think most people don’t know what a “Samaritan” is, or that a “good Samaritan” _is_ oxymoronic, much less why. The probably think “Samaritan” means something like “traveler” or “stranger”. **rhubarbarin** said: > [@](#): > > I don’t find it plausible that rats would eat off someone’s face like cartoon piranhas, so it seemed a totally irrational fear to me. Would it make you feel better if it took time, rather than just a few seconds? > [@](#): > > A Kansas City family is dealing with the aftermath of finding their four-week-old baby in a pool of blood; her nose and part of her upper lip had been chewed off by rats. [http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163737/rats\_feast\_on\_newborn\_babys\_face.html?cat=7](http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163737/rats_feast_on_newborn_babys_face.html?cat=7) Rats will attack defenseless people - like sleeping people. > [@](#): > > The latest attack occurred Tuesday when an elderly man felt a sharp pain on his toe while sleeping and awoke to find it bleeding. The 69-year-old, admitted to a hospital, said he had been bitten by a rat earlier too. > ‘There are countless rats everywhere in the neighbourhood. The government should think of measures to tackle the problem,’ a resident said. > In June, a housewife was bitten while shopping at a supermarket, while in May a British tourist was attacked. > **[Google](https://www.google.com/)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. So while rats may not typically swarm an adult human, if confined where they have access to your face, you have no way to protect yourself, and left for a period of time, then yes, they will likely attack and eat your face. **Little Nemo** said: > [@](#): > > Ebenezer Scrooge might be half an example. Everyone always remembers him from the way he was at the beginning of _A Christmas Carol_ not the way he became during the course of the story. I don’t think that really counts. The significance of Scrooge is his pre-Carol persona, not the man he becomes. Yes, the story is about his redemption, but the character is the grumpy miserly attitude that brings the story about. It’s fair to equate “Scrooge” with “miserly grump”. **thelurkinghorror** said: > [@](#): > > Huh. You learn something new every day. To be fair, in my intense research (skimming Wikipedia), it looks like absolutely nothing about his origins are mentioned in _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_, which is how I remember it. Wiki has this to say: > [@](#): > > In the initial draft of _Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea_, Nemo was a Polish noble, a member of the szlachta, vengeful because of the murder of his family during the Russian repression of the Polish insurrection of 1863-1864. Verne’s editor Pierre-Jules Hetzel feared a book ban in the Russian market and offending a French ally, the Russian Empire. He made Verne obscure Nemo’s motivation in the first book.[citation needed] In the second book of _Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea_, Nemo comes close to revealing his Indian ancestry, though this is not obvious except in retrospect, in a scene where he saves a Ceylonese fisherman while on a pearl-diving expedition in the Gulf of Mannar. IIRC, Verne makes comments about Nemo’s motivations in 20,000 Leagues, but doesn’t actually discuss details enough to pinpoint his origins. Seems he changed his intent after original writing, so whatever clues he may have veiled were sufficiently vague to allow reinterpretation. **Alessan** said: > [@](#): > > I’ve known literally dozens of Nimrods (promounced Neem-ROAD) - it’s a very common name in my age group. All of them would be surprised to hear that Americans think their name sounds funny. Most Americans would think (a) they pronounce their name _wrong_, and (b) their name sounds funny (either way). Though “nim-rod” is certainly funnier by exposure. ---
**Author:** ![dobieman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@dobieman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dobieman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/151 "2010-07-14T00:39:07Z")
Time to tackle some real classics! Though constantly held up as paragons of virtue and uncommon wisdom, both the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew were not at all reticent about trespassing when they felt it served their purposes. Even a bit of minor filching was not beyond them. Furthermore, in an episode when Nancy goes out west she finds it necessary to kill a lynx, a rattlesnake, and fire a few shots at a bobcat. (I’m not sure what a lynx was doing that far south, anyway, but here in Alaska where they do reside you can count the number of lynx attacks on humans on the fingers of one foot.) The Hardy Boys were forever pushing their luck and, as a result of such poor judgment, would be trapped in mines, trapped by crooks, caught in various bad situations. Finally, by the middle of the book (if not much earlier) the reader knew who the bad guys were, how they were committing their crimes, where they were hiding out, and probably even their shoe sizes yet it always tooks towards the last quarter of the book for the obvious to be deduced by these sleuths. Plus, I have my suspicions Nancy Drew was a Republican but that’s neither here nor there. (And what’s with her going with that Ned Nickerson guy for umpteen years and nary even a heated handholding?) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/152 "2010-07-14T02:24:35Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, a good example would be Homer Atkins, the title character of the novel _ **The Ugly American.** _ > > Most people haven’t read the book, and just use the term “Ugly American” to refer to any Yank tourist who’s boorish, loud and vulgar. But Homer Atkins is not such a man- he’s an idealistic engineer who tries very hard to show respect for foreign cultures, and wants very much to help the Asian peasants he works with. He’s referred to as “the ugly American” because, despite his good heart, he is far from handsome. Apologies if I’ve missed it in this thread, but I have read the book, and wasn’t it strongly implied that Homer was actually CIA? And his actions thus presaged American involvement taking up where the French left off. It’s been awhile since I’ve read it, though. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/153 "2010-07-14T03:46:02Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Apologies if I’ve missed it in this thread, but I have read the book, and wasn’t it strongly implied that Homer was actually CIA? And his actions thus presaged American involvement taking up where the French left off. It’s been awhile since I’ve read it, though. I don’t know if Atkins was with the CIA, but the point remains: he was NOT a loud, boorish American tourist, which is how the term “Ugly American” is used today. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/154 "2010-07-14T06:48:09Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Including, perhaps, that none of the events happened anywhere other than in HH’s fantasies. It’s been awhile since I read it but I’m pretty sure it happened. When he sees her the last time and she is pregnant and married, after he leaves he realizes that he destroyed her childhood and that is the crime he is truly confessing. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/155 "2010-07-14T09:15:37Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Apologies if I’ve missed it in this thread, but I have read the book, and wasn’t it strongly implied that Homer was actually CIA? And his actions thus presaged American involvement taking up where the French left off. It’s been awhile since I’ve read it, though. > [@astorian](#): > > I don’t know if Atkins was with the CIA, but the point remains: he was NOT a loud, boorish American tourist, which is how the term “Ugly American” is used today. D’oh!:smack: Never mind. I now realize I am thinking of _The Quiet American_. Read both, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/156 "2010-07-14T12:57:01Z")
> [@dobieman](#): > > Plus, I have my suspicions Nancy Drew was a Republican but that’s neither here nor there. (And what’s with her going with that Ned Nickerson guy for umpteen years and nary even a heated handholding?) Ned meant nothing to her. She was holding out for a rich older guy who could finance her roadsters and sleuthing sprees. He was occasionally convenient to help her climb out of abandoned wells, but she secretly loathed him for his slavish devotion and wished he’d transfer his affections to Bess. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/157 "2010-07-14T13:34:03Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > How can this possibly be true? Did they know nothing of how easily false confessions can be tortured from somebody? Or did they just think Stalin would never torture people because he and his regime were good? Think about what drove people to be a socialist in say the 1920s. Let’s put it this way: pretend you were a miner in the U.S. around then. Maybe you’d become friends with Joe Hill, maybe you knew someone killed at the Columbine mine, maybe you’d had your own head busted open by a strikebreaking goon. You’d also seen newspaper accounts of all of these things that portrayed the mine owner as an innocent victim, and the people who actually suffered as crazy anarchists deserving of torture before death. So you knew firsthand that capitalists were violent, if not actively bent on killing at least OK with some collateral deaths, and quite capable of lying about anything that might hurt their interests. So when some newspaper owned by the same guy that ran a copper mine told you that Stalin was bad, you might naturally take that with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/158 "2010-07-14T16:53:32Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I had read the book as a child, and was greatly surprised the first time I heard someone use “Uncle Tom” to mean “bootlicker”. > > Don Quijote and Sancho Panza are very complex characters; the archetypes based on them are much more linear. While not exactly opposite, Don Quijote does a lot more than tilt against windmills and Sancho is shown to be a **capable governor** , not merely a neverending source of sayings. More than once their friends are left wondering whether it’s Alonso Quijano or them who is insane. I think your missing the joke here. Everyone in Baraterria calls Sancho a great governor, but they never allow him to actually do anything. [QUOTE=John Difoole] Quixote himself is an excellent on-topic example: the author intended him as a parody of medieval chivalry & courtly love and such, but instead he ended up as a sort of idealistic hero, attempting to fulfill his quests in the face of a cynical world. I personally favor the latter interpretation, myself, even if Cervantes would disagree with me (such is art). [/QUOTE] Don Quixote was insane. The comedy in the book comes from the fact that he tries to play the valiant knight and fails miserably. To hero worship him is to miss the point that he was insane. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/159 "2010-07-14T18:02:43Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I think your missing the joke here. Everyone in Baraterria calls Sancho a great governor, but they never allow him to actually do anything. Indeed. It was a great joke for all involved that Sancho would be a governor. They basically treated it like they couldn’t think of anything funnier. Plus the Duke that made him governor was engaged in a long-term plan to humiliate Quixote… > [@](#): > > Don Quixote was insane. The comedy in the book comes from the fact that he tries to play the valiant knight and fails miserably. To hero worship him is to miss the point that he was insane. I think that Cervantes did a good job of keeping the extent of Quixote’s insanity ambiguous. Sometimes, he seemed to be utterly crazy. At other points, especially in part 2, he seemed to be somewhat aware of the fact that he was the butt of multiple jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304/160 "2010-07-14T18:57:27Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > IIRC, Verne makes comments about Nemo’s motivations in 20,000 Leagues, but doesn’t actually discuss details enough to pinpoint his origins. Seems he changed his intent after original writing, so whatever clues he may have veiled were sufficiently vague to allow reinterpretation. Captain Nemo is probably generally thought of today as a scientist/inventor who was far ahead of his time, but in origin he was not only that, but also a terrorist (if a rather sympathetic one). In both the book and the Disney movie, Nemo is a crusader against imperialism and goes out of his way to destroy the warships of colonialist powers; the other characters are captured by him when he attacks the US warship _Abraham Lincoln_. It’s thus rather ironic that the United States named its first nuclear submarine the _Nautilus_ after his ship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-characters-who-come-to-symbolize-the-opposite-of-how-they-were-portrayed/544304.md?page=9)