# Literary cliches I'm tired of **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927 "2010-04-21T22:47:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/21 "2010-04-23T17:56:06Z")
The Chosen One. It’s not restricted to books by any means (in fact, it may be MORE common in movies and TV shows), but it’s my least favorite plot device. You know what I mean - “ohhh you’re the One who has been prophesized to save our people/ defeat the evil overlord/ retake our homeland/ bring balance to our Midichlorian counts/ all of the above!!!” It’s lazy writing, it removes all agency from the protagonist, and it sucks all the drama and suspense away because \*you already know what’s going to happen. \*The prophecy itself is a fucking spoiler for the story! ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/22 "2010-04-23T19:42:24Z")
I don’t like the fact the lines of bad and good are often too clearly drawn. Especially when the good guy is involved. For instance, you may see a bit of good in the bad guy. Like he helps the old lady cross the street before he robs the 7-11. But you rarely see the good guy rescuing the lady and then shout racial remarks at her 'cause he hates people of a different race. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/23 "2010-04-23T19:49:47Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > The Chosen One. It’s not restricted to books by any means (in fact, it may be MORE common in movies and TV shows), but it’s my least favorite plot device. You know what I mean - “ohhh you’re the One who has been prophesized to save our people/ defeat the evil overlord/ retake our homeland/ bring balance to our Midichlorian counts/ all of the above!!!” > > It’s lazy writing, it removes all agency from the protagonist, and it sucks all the drama and suspense away because \*you already know what’s going to happen. \*The prophecy itself is a fucking spoiler for the story! I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. Oh, or perhaps be successfully tempted by the antagonist into the whole “join with me and we shall rule together!” scheme. Then some schlub/opportunist/whatever happens to come along and manage to succeed where the Chosen One did not. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/24 "2010-04-23T19:54:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could you make that kind of story work, if the chosen one were a privileged aristocrat in a major metropolis? [Siddhartha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha) did, as I understand it. > [@Tanbarkie](#): > > The Chosen One. It’s not restricted to books by any means (in fact, it may be MORE common in movies and TV shows), but it’s my least favorite plot device. You know what I mean - “ohhh you’re the One who has been prophesized to save our people/ defeat the evil overlord/ retake our homeland/ bring balance to our Midichlorian counts/ all of the above!!!” > > It’s lazy writing, it removes all agency from the protagonist, and it sucks all the drama and suspense away because \*you already know what’s going to happen. \*The prophecy itself is a fucking spoiler for the story! I like the way Rowling did it with Harry Potter. He’s the chosen one, but only because Voldemort chose to believe he was the one the prophesy about a Chosen One was about. It takes Harry a lot of growing up to realize that there’s nothing inherently special about him that makes him the one that must defeat Voldemort, it’s because Voldemort (in the words of the prophesy) “marked him as his equal.” ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/25 "2010-04-23T21:03:25Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. Oh, or perhaps be successfully tempted by the antagonist into the whole “join with me and we shall rule together!” scheme. Then some schlub/opportunist/whatever happens to come along and manage to succeed where the Chosen One did not. I recently read a trilogy that played with this concept in some really interesting ways IMHO. You’re never quite sure who the “Chosen One” is and what exaclty they’ve been chosen for. If I knew how to insert a spolier box I’d give the name of the trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/26 "2010-04-23T21:12:58Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > I recently read a trilogy that played with this concept in some really interesting ways IMHO. You’re never quite sure who the “Chosen One” is and what exaclty they’ve been chosen for. If I knew how to insert a spolier box I’d give the name of the trilogy. [spoiler]Like this[/spoiler\*], just remove the \*. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/27 "2010-04-23T22:07:39Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. Oh, or perhaps be successfully tempted by the antagonist into the whole “join with me and we shall rule together!” scheme. Then some schlub/opportunist/whatever happens to come along and manage to succeed where the Chosen One did not. There’s a graphic novel.. soon to be a movie… and the name escapes me but it’s a similar premise. A boy escapes to a fantasy world where he’s the chosen one and must save the people–BUT! he’s a little kid and is scared to shit and runs back to the real world and the fantasy kingdom is taken over by the Eeeeevil ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/28 "2010-04-23T22:18:25Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > It’s lazy writing, it removes all agency from the protagonist, and it sucks all the drama and suspense away because \*you already know what’s going to happen. \*The prophecy itself is a fucking spoiler for the story! To a certain extent, conventional stories are already just as spoileriffic anyway. If you have an identifiable main protagonist, whether or not there’s a prophecy about him/her, you _know_ that whatever dangers are thrown their way, they’ll survive and win in the end. No matter how certain death is, it’s just not going to happen. Sure, some stories can subvert that, but they can also subvert prophecy just as easily. Hell, I’ve seen plenty of stories where the prophecy is subverted but The Hero Wins isn’t. I also don’t mind prophecies if they’re suitably cryptic or strange or misleading. “He Who Is Chosen will save our lands and people” is lazy, “The Chosen One will balance the Force” and everyone winds up dead except two Light and two Dark when everyone assumed Dark would be vanquished is on the right track to inspired. Yes, yes, I know Lucas didn’t intend that interpretation. He can go suck eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/29 "2010-04-23T23:01:35Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. Oh, or perhaps be successfully tempted by the antagonist into the whole “join with me and we shall rule together!” scheme. Then some schlub/opportunist/whatever happens to come along and manage to succeed where the Chosen One did not. Not exactly the same thing, but I once read a fantasy novel called _Minerva Wakes_ (Google tells me the author is Holly Lisle) where the protagonists are _not_ the “Chosen Ones”. They have the requisite Magic Rings, but were given them by accident because they resembled the prophesied Chosen Ones and were in the right place at the right time. I don’t remember all the details, but the “good guys” are working against the protagonists for much of the book and actually want them dead so the rings can go to someone more promising. Of course, the protagonists manage to defeat the forces of evil and everything works out in the end. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/30 "2010-04-24T01:58:24Z")
To be fair, the idea of the Chosen One was not invented by modern fantasy writers, but is found in many cultural myths, at least according to Joseph Campbell. See the TVTropes page on [The Hero’s Journey.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleh1ltpj3ph282?from=Main.TheHerosJourney) It’s not a cliche, it’s an **archetype!** ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/31 "2010-04-24T04:25:05Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > “ohhh you’re the One who has been prophesized to save our people/ defeat the evil overlord/ retake our homeland/ bring balance to our Midichlorian counts/ all of the above!!!” There’s still an opening for “Midichlorian Balancer”… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/32 "2010-04-24T04:40:42Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. I just recalled something like that; Mercedes Lackey wrote a short story called Pendragon, where a man finds Excalibur and discovers he’s the reincarnation of King Arthur and a destined hero. After consideration of how the story turned out the first time, he sells the sword to a pawn shop. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/33 "2010-04-24T04:59:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I much prefer it to be because the weirdness in question is really good at hiding. It’s less insulting to the skeptics, and better paranoia fuel. Yes, I am particularly impressed by stories that manage to make the ludicrous somehow believable. I remember really enjoying Whitley Streiber’s _Wolfen_ because the explanation of the “werewolves” made sense. It was outlandish but acceptable. Similarly William Hjortsberg’s _Falling Angel_, which was filmed as _Angel Heart_, also avoids all its fantastical elements by hiding in a detective story. ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/34 "2010-04-24T13:05:11Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I suspect it’s been done, but I’d love a book that built up a Chosen One only for them to utterly, horribly fail at the quest and die terribly, or at least slink away humiliated and abandon his people. Oh, or perhaps be successfully tempted by the antagonist into the whole “join with me and we shall rule together!” scheme. Then some schlub/opportunist/whatever happens to come along and manage to succeed where the Chosen One did not. Something sort of like that happened in real life, with [Sabbatai Zevi.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Sevi) ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/35 "2010-04-24T17:02:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > To be fair, the idea of the Chosen One was not invented by modern fantasy writers, but is found in many cultural myths, at least according to Joseph Campbell. See the TVTropes page on [The Hero’s Journey.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitleh1ltpj3ph282?from=Main.TheHerosJourney) It’s not a cliche, it’s an **archetype!** Yes, and there are several motifs in this theme, as being an orphan, whether we talk about Moses, Arthur or Frodo. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/36 "2010-04-24T20:20:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could you make that kind of story work, if the chosen one were a privileged aristocrat in a major metropolis? Worked for the Buddha… ETA: KneadtoKnow beat me to it by a day. Should have known better than to post that before I finished reading the thread all the way through. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/37 "2010-04-24T20:34:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The portrayal of skeptics as stupid. The claim that the reason that they don’t believe in the aliens/magic/vampires/ghosts is because they are willfully ignoring the evidence in front of them. Instead of the real world reason being that there is no such evidence. I much prefer it to be because the weirdness in question is really good at hiding. It’s less insulting to the skeptics, and better paranoia fuel. Disbelief in magic and ghosts is rational and intelligent in the real world. If Batman regularly says in his own magazine that there is no such thing as ghosts or magic spells, despite having done business in the past with Deadman, the Spectre, and Dr. Fate, he is being an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927/38 "2010-04-25T02:40:10Z")
> [@Neidhart](#): > > Something sort of like that happened in real life, with [Sabbatai Zevi.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Sevi) Except for the “random shlub comes along and saves the day” part. Shabtai Tzvi has gone down in history as one of the Big Three False Messiahs that totally ended in disaster for the Jews. And he was probably the craziest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literary-cliches-im-tired-of/536927.md?page=1)