# Literature: I found Middle Earth, it's real. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 1, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009 "2019-08-01T16:33:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![King\_of\_the\_Americas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3da27b/32.png) [@King\_of\_the\_Americas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_of_the_Americas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/1 "2019-08-01T16:33:03Z")
I am a grad student, re-discovered Amerindians owned land, Thomas Jefferson’s a thief, yada yada yada, thesis subject dismissed, AND another message board thread closed. _end scene_ Undeterred, by my academic dismissal, I continued my research, looking into French and Spanish incursions into the Wester Territories, when I found this- [Tolkien's Hidden Truth - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh) I immediately thought, “Tolkien, you thief! You still this bit of history and used in in your trilogy!” Ol’JRR was a well read storyteller, and I just figured he had read this too…then I thought what if Coronado was invading Gondor? So, I took the route I knew he took and used my google earth skills with a Middle Earth map, to see if I could get them to line up…but I was having no luck…UNTIL, I saw this-[Tolkien Cipher Secret - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/Qakrqda) See the arrows on the S and N? He’s tell you, that you gotta turn the map upside down! I have found everything- Here’s Helm’s Deep today- [Helm's Deep today - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/EpD0Ddn) Minas Tirith- [White trees of Minas Tirith - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/AbieNCU) I’ve even visited Bag End- _Drone footage included_["Bag End" - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/g0zsqx0) I think Tolkien and Martin used the same similar origins to tell a slightly different tale…but they both have a Mary and a Pip, Sting vs Needle, Sam-wise vs Sam the reads all books. In any case, I find, in reality that both are based on REAL places! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/2 "2019-08-01T17:56:42Z")
[Here is an article from 2010](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/121-where-on-earth-was-middle-earth) that strongly suggests that specific places in England and other European sites were the basis for Tolkien’s tales. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/3 "2019-08-01T18:01:48Z")
Could you not get a blog and inflict yourself on people that way? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/4 "2019-08-01T18:10:31Z")
Can we have a revolution already? I heard the Bastille is nice this time of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/5 "2019-08-01T18:17:44Z")
Did you know that there was civilization on Mars? You can tell by all of the canals. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/6 "2019-08-01T18:20:23Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Did you know that there was civilization on Mars? You can tell by all of the canals. Percival Lowell said it, I believe it, that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/7 "2019-08-01T18:21:49Z")
That explains the potatoes and tobacco. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/8 "2019-08-01T18:29:58Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > That explains the potatoes and tobacco. Martian canals? Of course, it is so obvious! I think that perfume was invented in canal number five. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/9 "2019-08-01T18:50:19Z")
> [@King\_of\_the\_Americas](#): > > Undeterred, by my academic dismissal, I continued my research, looking into French and Spanish incursions into the Wester Territories, when I found this- [Tolkien's Hidden Truth - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh) Um… re signal fires… you didn’t know that signal fires on the hilltops were used in England? Most famously to signal the arrival of the Spanish Armada. From Macaulay’s poem about the Armada, which Tolkien undoubtedly knew: > [@](#): > > Night sank upon the dusky beach, and on the purple sea, > Such night in England ne’er had been, nor e’er again shall be. > From Eddystone to Berwick bounds, from Lynn to Milford Bay, > That time of slumber was as bright and busy as the day; > For swift to east and swift to west the ghastly war-flame spread, > High on St. Michael’s Mount it shone: it shone on Beachy Head. > Far on the deep the Spaniard saw, along each southern shire, > Cape beyond cape, in endless range, those twinkling points of fire. > … > All night from tower to tower they sprang; they sprang from hill to hill: > Till the proud Peak unfurled the flag o’er Darwin’s rocky dales > Till like volcanoes flared to heaven the stormy hills of Wales, > Till twelve fair counties saw the blaze on Malvern’s lonely height, > Till streamed in crimson on the wind the Wrekin’s crest of light, > Till broad and fierce the star came forth on Ely’s stately fane, > And tower and hamlet rose in arms o’er all the boundless plain; > Till Belvoir’s lordly terraces the sign to Lincoln sent, > And Lincoln sped the message on o’er the wide vale of Trent; > Till Skiddaw saw the fire that burned on Gaunt’s embattled pile, > And the red glare on Skiddaw roused the burghers of Carlisle. As for the rest… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/10 "2019-08-01T18:59:58Z")
Alas, we hardly knew him. The OP has passed to wherever it is deposed kings go to glower. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/11 "2019-08-01T19:00:06Z")
> [@King\_of\_the\_Americas](#): > > Undeterred, by my academic dismissal, I continued my research, looking into French and Spanish incursions into the Wester Territories, when I found this- [Tolkien's Hidden Truth - Imgur](https://imgur.com/gallery/9la21bh) > > I immediately thought, “Tolkien, you thief! You still this bit of history and used in in your trilogy!” The bit you’ve got highlighted there reads > [@](#): > > spreading the alarm throughout the country by means of great fires, which they kindled on the high mountains Why on earth do you think Tolkien would have had to be thinking of Coronado? Signal fires have been used all over the world. [Here’s an example that would have been much closer to home for Tolkien](http://www.connected-earth.com/Journeys/Introducingcommunications/Thesoundbarrier/Lineofsightcommunications/index.htm): > [@](#): > > The most famous example from British history is the line of beacons set up along the southern coast of England in the year 1588 to warn us that the Spanish invasion fleet, the Armada, was coming. And if using techniques from actual history in one’s writing is theft, then I doubt anybody’s written anything without stealing. – hey, nearly everything that’s written uses a pre-existing language for a significant portion of the work! authors are all stealing the language! ETA: Whoops, OP is gone from here indeed; at least as far as posting is concerned. Can’t say that I’m surprised. ETA: Also, beaten to the example by GreenWyvern. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/literature-i-found-middle-earth-its-real/838009/12 "2019-08-01T19:38:28Z")
[Moderating] I think this thread is now moot. Rather than leaving it open for no purpose other than mockery of the OP, I think it’s more dignified to just close it now.