# LITTLE Things That Irk/Please You in LOTR films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980 "2008-09-24T14:06:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/41 "2008-09-24T19:24:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Ok, in the corner with you. And don’t you come out until you’ve really thought about what you did. \ 🙂 What? You’re seriously putting me in the corner for NOT DOING ANYTHING?!?!??!?!? Fine. I’ll just work on my knitting. And by “knitting” I mean “sun-killer missile programming.” > [@](#): > > These are real nice, but not quite the word I was looking for. I’m sure to remember it-at about 0300 tonight. :rolleyes: I’m thinking you really may have meant voluptuous, but also consider epicurean or sensuous. > [@](#): > > I hope the chair you’re on is comfy-you’re in that corner forever, now. Enough with the ridiculous slash fic about the characters in these stories. Major IRK for me. Grrrr. > Your comment reminded me of Gimli and Eowyn’s interaction and made me think of a “please”–Aragorn’s joking with Eowyn re “it’s the beards”. Great. 😃 All kidding & slash aside, I DO believe Legolas & Gimli were in love, just not sexually. Imagine if Turk & JD from Scrubs were badass warriors, adults, and, um, men. > [@](#): > > But they’re not supposed to be together. Between you and me, Eowyn is the better woman, but Arwen is an elf. What are you gonna do? She’s a freaking elf. I don’t think she’s worthy of Aragorn, but he does, so that’s that. Eowyn is better off with Faramir–a much deeper and renaissance man than Aragorn (much as I love him) will be. Oh, Faramir isn’t worthy of Eowyn either. But then, no one is. I just really, really hate movie Aragorn for breaking her heart that way. Book-Aragorn didn’t do much better, I admit, but at least he recognized what was happening (i.e., that Eowyn’s great [del]depression[/del] despair was leading her to court her own death, and that what she thought was love for Aragorn was simply a symptom of that despair), and he recognized that he could not possibly help her through it–that attention from him only made things worse. I didn’t hate movie Aragorn until that moment. And now another thing that pleased me: Frodo’s voice-over to Sam to encourage him to step “farther from home than [he’d] ever been”–quoting Bilbo, naturally (as the greatest hobbit of them all) and ending the with spectre of a Nazgul approaching the Shire. The sheer beauty of that convinces me that Jackson is not, in fact, a complete hack. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/42 "2008-09-24T19:25:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > You know what, now I am not sure, did Sting glow consistently whenever orcs were around in the movie, it should have. Off to IMDB… > [@](#): > > I was actually thinking of Andúril not blazing at Helm’s Deep. That was my real complaint. In the movie, Aragorn is not given the reforged blade until after Helm’s Deep. (IIRC, In the book, Aragorn receives the reforged blade in Rivendell, right?.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/43 "2008-09-24T19:34:00Z")
I was just thinking of this one thing yesterday; When the eye focuses on Frodo and he collapses to the ground. He looks like a spastic little kid throwing a fit and allowing himself to fall down. It’s very poorly done. I like the “scrubbing bubbles” comment on the Army of the Dead, because that whole business RUINS the end of the movie for me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/44 "2008-09-24T19:39:06Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Generally, when a favorite book is made into a film, the visuals are not as impressive as the scenes I had imagined. New Zealand’s forests and mountains are much more spectacular than I had imagined. This left out one small irk for me: the Misty Mountains were _not_ what I had imagined in my mind. They had the height, and the steepness down, but the actual rock seems too black and volcanic and too fractured (not smooth enough). I imagined more Alp-like mountains. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/45 "2008-09-24T19:40:03Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If you think I’m going to encourage people here to make limericks about LOTR, you’re in that corner for a good long time… As if we all weren’t weird enough! There once was a scene with Tom Bombadil, that got cut like a ream at a paper mill. But if kept intact, the scene would distract, and just make a long movie longer still. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/46 "2008-09-24T19:44:04Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > In the movie, Aragorn is not given the reforged blade until after Helm’s Deep. (IIRC, In the book, Aragorn receives the reforged blade in Rivendell, right?.) In the Book, Aragorn is carrying the [Shards of Narsil](http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/shardsofnarsil.html)and it is reforged in Rivendell. In the movie, he did not get Andúril until after Helm’s Deep? If true, that is even more horrendous. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/47 "2008-09-24T19:49:13Z")
One of the many scenes I liked, can think of off the top of my head, and hasn’t yet been mentioned is the lead-in to Gandalf “curing” Theoden. The Company enters the throne room and begins walking towards the throne, and Grima orders the soldiers to stop them because Gandalf was not relieved of his staff. Seemingly without missing a step, and despite being unarmed, Gimli, Legolas, and Aragorn keep the soldiers from interfering. And one soldier starts to step forward, but Theoden’s son puts out an arm to stop him, smiling slightly. I do agree, though, that the breaking of the enchantment was more CGI than it needed to be. Not just because of the obvious facial makeup disappearing, but his hair and beard go from long, grey, and straggling to brown and neatly trimmed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/48 "2008-09-24T19:52:08Z")
My one really big irk: in book, my favorite scene is when Aragorn shows up with the comandeered black ships and saves Minas Tirith’s bacon. The best part of it was that it was done from the POV of the defenders of Minas Tirith. The moment when they see the White Tree of Gondor flying from the lead ship, and realize that, rather than final defeat, they’ve just been re-enforced, is one of my favorite “Fuck yeah!” moments in literature. Aragorn and company jumping off the boats while they’re in dock just didn’t do it for me, particularly when they were followed up by the poorly conceived Army of the Dead scenes. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/49 "2008-09-24T19:57:58Z")
Pleases – too many to list, and most of them have already been listed. My favorite scene is the Nazgul entering the Prancing Pony, with the guy cowering behind the bar and the swords passing by. Love that one (along with the Hobbits’ first view of Aragorn, sitting in the shadows, and “I know what hunts you.”) Irks – Aragorn at his wedding – you can see his tongue sticking out as he’s bending down to kiss Arwen. 😛 Too many lines of dialogue started with "Long have I . . . " or "Long have we . . . ". When Gandalf comes to the rescue at Helm’s Deep, the hill he’s riding down is **way** too steep. Maybe it looked more realistic on the big screen. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/50 "2008-09-24T20:07:53Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > When Gandalf comes to the rescue at Helm’s Deep, the hill he’s riding down is **way** too steep. Maybe it looked more realistic on the big screen. No it was way too steep, I had the same problem. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/51 "2008-09-24T20:10:20Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > No it was way too steep, I had the same problem. Too steep for YOU, mayhap. But Gandalf had the advantage of (a) riding the greatest steed in history, and (b) being Gandalf. How the Eorlingas made it down, I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/52 "2008-09-24T20:11:52Z")
Some comments on irks/pleases other people mentioned… The hobbit digging for the wax in his ear, and the pig scene: I agree, both irk me. In fact after watching it several times I think the whole “Concerning Hobbits” at the beginning of the FOTR EE doesn’t work nearly as well as the way the TE was done, and I think leaving it out of the TE was the right decision. Gandalf’s ship-shaped smoke ring: This irked me because I was sure the ship Gandalf, Bilbo, and Frodo et al take at the end of ROTK was going to be an exact replica of the smoke-ring ship, but as far as I can tell it was not. I liked several of the small touches given to Boromir’s character before Amon Hen: teaching the young hobbits to fight, carrying them in the blizzard, picking them up to jump over the gap in Moria. It makes Pippin’s pledge of service to Denethor much more believable (and is completely consistent with the description of Boromir’s character in the books). Sting did glow in Moria, and I think in all the scenes where Orcs were nearby. However Glamdring, which in the books had the same glowing feature, did not. I like the nervous sword-swinging Boromir does when they are waiting for the Orcs to break into the Chamber of Marzabul. Frodo as a leader when the hobbits are alone: again, consistent with the books. Remember Frodo was supposed to be somewhat older than the others, and certainly had more common sense than, say, Pippin or Sam. Minor irk: I would have liked to have seen a couple of dwarves set out with Bilbo from Bag End, as in the book. There is supposed to be resonance with the way The Hobbit starts out, here. Rather than Elves at Helm’s Deep I would rather they just showed brief scenes of, say, Elves fighting to defend Lorien or the Woodland Realm, and Dwarves defending the Lonely Mountain (I think PJ said he included the Elves to show that other races were also fighting Sauron). My main objection to the way it was done in the movie is logistical; Aragorn and co. take boats from Lorien then run and ride horses for a few days to get to Helm’s Deep, obviously they couldn’t have gotten there much quicker. Then Haldir and his buds show up like 5 minutes after they do. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/53 "2008-09-24T20:12:22Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > In the Book, Aragorn is carrying the [Shards of Narsil](http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/shardsofnarsil.html)and it is reforged in Rivendell. > > In the movie, he did not get Andúril until after Helm’s Deep? If true, that is even more horrendous. He gets it from Elrond just before embarking on the path of the dead at the beginning of ROTK. The whole Andúril treatment is one of the odder changes in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/54 "2008-09-24T20:19:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Too steep for YOU, mayhap. But Gandalf had the advantage of (a) riding the greatest steed in history, and (b) being Gandalf. > > How the Eorlingas made it down, I do not know. Good point but a correction. You are correct, Gandalf the White on Shadowfax was probably fine, but Shadowfax was not the greatest steed in the history of Middle Earth. That would probably go to Oromë’s horse [Nahar](http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Nahar). It is possible that [Felarof](http://www.tuckborough.net/horses.html#Felar%C3%B3f)was greater. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/55 "2008-09-24T20:22:23Z")
> [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](#): > > Rather than Elves at Helm’s Deep I would rather they just showed brief scenes of, say, Elves fighting to defend Lorien or the Woodland Realm, and Dwarves defending the Lonely Mountain (I think PJ said he included the Elves to show that other races were also fighting Sauron). I have no opinion on elves at/not at Helms Deep per se, but without them, we wouldn’t have had some of the best martial music ever composed, the Marching version of the Lothlorien theme playing as the Elves walk into Helms Deep. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/56 "2008-09-24T20:22:46Z")
Just wanted to link to this [article](http://media.www.dailyillini.com/media/storage/paper736/news/2008/09/23/News/No.Suspect.In.Sight.For.Eye.Of.Sauron.Prank-3446743.shtml) where pranksters at a university in Illinois recently added the Eye of Sauron to their campus bell tower. Looking at at that tower, I can see where it would be hard to resist. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/57 "2008-09-24T20:43:52Z")
Ok, the limericks are cracking me up. Keep 'em coming! 😃 **Skald** –I’m jesting. Long have I… never mind. 😛 There once was a lass named Elanor Whose tastes ran to those of Pelennor, She liked hobbits, too And elves as her crew, And she longed to live life in Gondor. I won’t quit my day job, folks! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/58 "2008-09-24T21:07:32Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > He gets it from Elrond just before embarking on the path of the dead at the beginning of ROTK. The whole Andúril treatment is one of the odder changes in the movies. Yup, that’s Lame with a capital “For fuck’s sake!” :smack: Elrond gets transmogrified into this arrogant racist bigot who holds out on Aragorn until the Totally Gratuitous Plot Development that means Arwen will die if Sauron isn’t defeated. And _that_ is reason enough to reforge the Broken Sword, but just plain defeating the Dark Lord wasn’t? :dubious: Someone mentioned cave trolls in Moria. There is one in the book, but it doesn’t come directly into contact with the Fellowship. It gets its foot in the door, is stabbed in the foot with Sting, and retreats. Minor good things: The big statues at Gondor’s borders on the River. They were breathtaking and (IMO) just as they should have been. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/59 "2008-09-24T21:16:30Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Minor good things: The big statues at Gondor’s borders on the River. They were breathtaking and (IMO) just as they should have been. Oh yes. I get the same feeling whenever I see the Statue of Liberty and Mount Rushmore. Normally I don’t like big shows of patriotism or militarism but a really big monument makes me tingle. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/60 "2008-09-24T21:20:27Z")
\*\*Irks: \*\* Gandalf smiting Denethor back onto the pyre. Denethor sprinting 1/2 mile or so, engulfed in flames, to toss himself off the pier of rock. Faramir leading a cavalry charge against the ruins of Osgiliath. Honestly - - who leads a charge against a city, or even ruins of a city? Frodo offering the ring to the Nazgul in Osgiliath. Kind of tips off Sauron, right? Treebeard’s taking Merry and Pippin to the white wizard. Large plothole, IMHO. If Treebeard’s already met Gandalf, then Treebeard knows what needs to happen at Isengard. Treebeard’s and the Ents hasty decision to march on Isengard. Actually, PJ pretty much dropped the ball WRT Entish characterization pre-Isengard attack. Lots more, but no sense making the longer than is readable. **Likes:** Ian Holm’s acting, for the most part. Ian McKellan’s acting. Bag End, Hobbiton, Shire. The high and low peep-hatches at the North Gate in Bree. Aragorn’s readiness to strike Boromir when he is holding the ring on Carhadras. “It comes in pints!” (ditto) “My friends! You bow to no one.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980.md?page=4)