# LITTLE Things That Irk/Please You in LOTR films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 24, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980 "2008-09-24T14:06:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/161 "2008-09-29T18:55:10Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Like the flashback of Faramir’s. If you mean the bit between Faramir and h is father about Elrond calling a meeting, I HATE that. It seems to imply that there is email, or at telegraphy, in Earth. I mean, the movie is explicit that it took 40 days to get from Rivendell to Moria. Tolkien’s explanation–that Boromir, Legolas, Gimli, and their companions had all come to Rivendell for different reasons–makes more sense, as it fits in with the book’s theme of the subtle hand of providence. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/162 "2008-09-29T18:59:22Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > **CRAB-EYE! From Dublin!** > > WTF? FOLLY, you fools! ---
**Author:** ![RogueRacer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ab992/32.png) [@RogueRacer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueRacer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/163 "2008-09-29T19:37:22Z")
Something that I haven’t seen mentioned. Irk: Minas Tirith appears to have been built using no mortar. It’s supposed to be one of the greatest strongholds of Middle Earth. It’s going to take a few hits from siege missiles without crumpling like a house of cards. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/164 "2008-09-29T19:50:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > [Crebain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crebain#Crebain)from [Dunland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunland). > > I think that scene is doomed to be confusing. It’s an important scene in establishing the interaction between the Fellowship and Saruman, but there’s simply now way to communicate the background info without destroying the pacing and mood. > > Fortunately, books exist. I understood the scene completly. That this flock of birds were Saruman’s spies. I just didn’t understand what he said. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/165 "2008-09-29T19:53:09Z")
> [@RogueRacer](#): > > Something that I haven’t seen mentioned. > > Irk: Minas Tirith appears to have been built using no mortar. It’s supposed to be one of the greatest strongholds of Middle Earth. It’s going to take a few hits from siege missiles without crumpling like a house of cards. A partial defense of that would be that the walls of Minas Tirith proper were unbreakable and smooth like the Orthanc. So Jackson used part of the description to go without visible mortar and forgot the unbreakable part as it didn’t look as cool. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/166 "2008-09-29T20:21:34Z")
The thing that I have always been disapointed in the most is the change of scope of the journey to Rivendell. I know the movie could only be so long, but there is a great sence of danger with four little home-body hobbits, who finally get some creepy old guy to help them. It is a great adventure. But in the movie: Oh no this is the farthest I’ve ever been, and a nazgul, shit we have to run 100 yards to the ferry. Across the river, now we have to go to Bree. You mean the door over there? Ohh cool. Hey Strider, you mean we gotta to walk all afternoon to get to Weathertop? Then a quick little 5 minute horse ride to the river and Rivendell. Frodos whole growing up bit over that part of the journey was important to the plot, and got cut too much I feel. It really did have the feeling of a car chase tempo and pacing, more than an epic journey. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/167 "2008-09-29T20:30:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Given that Theoden is explicitly under a Saruman’s magic spell in the movie, and that Grima is presumably the instrument by which Saruman is working the magic (otherwise, why would Saruman need him at all?), I always took it that Grima was applying whatever juju he ahd been given by Saruam to manipulate Eowyn in that scene, in the interests of seducing her (to put the nicest possible spin on it) or making it easier to rape her (to put the nastiest). That would explain the positively odd look on her face during the scene, the fact that she seemed to be made weaker by his very words, and her failure to immediately kick the crap out of him once she made the effort to free herself. > > (I think we can all agree that a Grima-Eowyn fight is very brief and ends with him screaming “My balls! My balls! You’ve RIPPED OFF MY BALLS!”) I was going to say that all Eowyn was famous for was offing someone who was lying prone before her on account of having been hamstrung with a Barrow-blade, but then I remembered that moments before she’d beheaded the Wraithlord’s fell-beast with a single mighty blow, so she wasn’t such a simpering little milk-and-water miss, at that. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/168 "2008-09-29T20:45:04Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I was going to say that all Eowyn was famous for was offing someone who was lying prone before her on account of having been hamstrung with a Barrow-blade, but then I remembered that moments before she’d beheaded the Wraithlord’s fell-beast with a single mighty blow, so she wasn’t such a simpering little milk-and-water miss, at that. Not to mention the fact she charged across the field as the only knight that was able to stay with the King. She must of slayed many in the reckless charge. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/169 "2008-09-29T21:44:55Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I understood the scene completly. That this flock of birds were Saruman’s spies. > I just didn’t understand what he said. Until this thread I never knew what the first word meant (well, you know.) It took me awhile to realize what the second word meant and that is only after knowing about that region via the Atlas of Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/170 "2008-09-29T22:08:33Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Until this thread I never knew what the first word meant (well, you know.) It took me awhile to realize what the second word meant and that is only after knowing about that region via the Atlas of Middle Earth. Add to that, the fact that neither word is used before or after that scene in the films. (and “crab-eye from Dublin” made me LOL) ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/171 "2008-09-29T22:17:21Z")
I didn’t care for the movies. The first one was OK but “meh”, the second one was bad, haven’t bothered watching the second. Things I did like: Legolas shooting his bow very quickly. It looked like there were some special effects on his movements in some of the scenes to make it look like someone who had hundreds of years of experience using a bow - it wasn’t just sped up, his motions weren’t particularly fast but they seemed inhumanly efficient and I was impressed. Things I did not like: Legolas doing a rail grind on a shield. Gimli used for comedic effect. Stupid orc birthing scene. Elf queen making scary face. Love scenes. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/172 "2008-09-29T23:01:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Well, that’s not quite right. She’d have been adjusting a single hair, perhaps, but otherwise her post-fight ablutions would have consisted of taking a bath to wash off his blood. I dunno. Those skirts are encumbering. And her shoes would need cleaning (to get the brains off). 🆒 > [@](#): > > Oh, it’s okay. I’m a guy, and I want more Eowyn-Faramir too. But I hate the scene you allude to–not because Mirando Otto and Viggo Mortenson don’t do perfectly wondeful jobs (they do) but because the scene is the climax of movie-Aragorn’s wankery. I loved and admired him in the first movie and much of the second; by the third I utterly despise him. > > It’s probably the big brother in me, I suppose. No, No, No! He is NOT a wanker in the films. That scene of them (will watch it again tonight) next to his horse (Brago?) where he tells her that it is but a dream and a thought that she loves–he says those words with such heartbreak. He cannot give Eowyn the time and courtesy that he should because he has to leave. I do wish he has one more line in there ( the bit about “long have I admired her and wanted her to find love” or whatever he says in the book) I wish he had said that to her face. Maybe it’s because I am female, but to shake up that scene, (where instead of uniting or ending in acrimony, a relationship ends with such honesty), is significant to me. In so, so many movies, the female’s job is to look pretty and be rescued. I am heartily sick of it. This dynamic between Eowyn and Aragorn put Tolkien about 100 years before his time. Viggo and Miranda do a fabulous job of it. Every glance, every blink is loaded with Things They Did Not Say. What is also missing is her (private) scene where she decides to go into battle because she no longer wants to live. Instead, she invites Merry along for a joy ride, apparently. :rolleyes: Will start DVD in about an hour. Must get my political fix, first. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/173 "2008-09-29T23:50:43Z")
**Irks:** Gimli as comic relief pissed me of too; He was the toughest dwarf in all middle-earth. The look of the wargs. In the books they were giant wolves. I understand that making them giant Hyenas makes them more exotic and scarier, but it’s easy to over-do things in fantasy. Ditto on Grima Wormtongue’s goth makeup and black robes in the land of brown clothes & buildings. He looked a little too much an outsider. You can see huge fawkin’ mountains from the Shire. The mountains are gorgeous, but from reading the books in elementary school, I always thought of the shire as flatland, like the Missippi river country. Bilbo says “I want to see mountains, Gandalf, _mountains_” but the Grand Tetons are within 20 miles of Hobbiton. He could walk up a hill and see them every fracking day before second breakfast if he really wanted to. I understand that New Zealand is mountain country, and God, I want to go there some day, but the could have CGI’d the mountais out of that scene where Frodo & Sam crest the hill with Gandalf. **Likes:** The costumes and armor were fantastic. Where do I start? Each race & country had their own style of clothing. The woodland elf costume was similar to the Rivendell elf costume, but they had their differences. The Moria goblins’ facial structure and costumes were similar to and different from the Uruk Hai and the Mordor orcs. I liked the braided beard on Gimli. I thought it was a good detail. The orcs were excellent. No pig snouts (which is good), but I thought they should have been a little more animalistic. Didn’t one of the books mention somewhere one of the orcs having tusks? > [@jsc1953](#): > > (and “crab-eye from Dublin” made me LOL) I always heard it as “Crab **lice** from Dublin”, which is even funnier. To me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/174 "2008-09-30T00:07:02Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I was going to say that all Eowyn was famous for was offing someone who was lying prone before her on account of having been hamstrung with a Barrow-blade, but then I remembered that moments before she’d beheaded the Wraithlord’s fell-beast with a single mighty blow, so she wasn’t such a simpering little milk-and-water miss, at that. And right before that she had been acquitting herself quite nicely in battle, including hobbling an oliphaunt. Granted that there are at least 985 reasons why she shouldn’t have been able to do that, she still did it, due to her general rockingness. Which leads me to to another irk: the oliphaunts. Evenn apart from their being kaiju, which was irritating but understandable, what’s supposed to be so impressive above Legolas offing one, which Eowyn did as well–and Eomer took out TWO? Not to put down either of the Wonder Twins. But the point of Aragorn’s frantic yelling to Mr. Greenleaf was clearly “Okay, here’s a problem with no human solution. Put the elf on it!” That’s undercut by the earlier scenes. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/175 "2008-09-30T01:18:39Z")
> [@CrazyChop](#): > > - Galadriel’s presence is really wasted in the first movie and it is an uneven execution. First, there is no reason in the theatrical release for her to be around (she gave no advice, she gave no gifts, only the boats and some pep talk to Frodo). In the extend edition, she bounced around like a little girl while giving away the gifts, making me wonder if she was on drugs. And you thought mallorn leaves were only good for wrapping things in. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/176 "2008-09-30T03:31:18Z")
> [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](#): > > For what it’s worth the “Goofs” section on IMDB claims it is Arwen’s fingers you see moving on the sword, not Aragorn’s. I have never looked closely myself. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Anyway, I had never noticed the Aragorn’s hand on the sword stuff, so I looked for it. It is Arwen’s hand–unless Aragorn’s hand is waaaay double jointed and he likes long nails with a French manicure. By golly, I just went back and looked at it on DVD\* (several times, zoomed in), and I think you might be right. It’s Viggo’s left hand on the sword, and Liv’s left hand is on top of his. You can see someone’s thumb move, and then a pinkie finger wiggle a moment later. The pinkie is definitely Liv’s, and it’s not clear whom the thumb belongs to. But considering that I thought all the movement was Viggo’s, I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the filmmakers. So I guess I stand corrected. \*(It’s at 23:00–23:05 on TTT EE disk 2, for those following along at home.) ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/177 "2008-09-30T03:48:36Z")
Liked the “you bow to no one” scene - including the general grandeur of the victory ceremony. Disliked the botched handling of the Entmoot, and botched Ents in general. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/178 "2008-09-30T03:56:04Z")
> [@Civil\_Guy](#): > > Liked the “you bow to no one” scene - including the general grandeur of the victory ceremony. > > Disliked the botched handling of the Entmoot, and botched Ents in general. The “you bow to no one” scene bothered me. I like Merry & Pippin well enough, but they were not remotely as central to the victory of the West as Frodo & Sam, and if they deserve to be honored along with the two primary hobbits, then so do Eowyn, Eomer, Gimli, & Legolas. Well, not Legolas. Poncy git. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/179 "2008-09-30T04:04:10Z")
I like the expression on Eowyn’s face during the cavalry charge: sheer terror mixed with grim determination. I don’t like the way that no-one ever gets the mechanics of battle right: two armies just rush headlong at each other and start bashing when they meet. Where are the pike squares, damn it? And use your archers against the cavalry! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980/180 "2008-09-30T14:51:06Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > I like the expression on Eowyn’s face during the cavalry charge: sheer terror mixed with grim determination. > > I don’t like the way that no-one ever gets the mechanics of battle right: two armies just rush headlong at each other and start bashing when they meet. Where are the pike squares, damn it? And use your archers against the cavalry! Well, they get some of it right–just not too much. I don’t understand Hollywood horses (Kiwi horses?)–they just run right over the enemy and never get gored by those 7 ft pikes! Amazing! Irks: The drinking game. It’s stupid. I laugh every time at Gimli skeeving me out about little hairy wimmen. It’s funny, but. #2 son and I decided that elves can only get drunk on wine, not ale. What the hell, it’s Middle Earth; anything can happen. The whole Arwen’s fate is tied to the ring. Makes no sense, seems lame, IS lame. That scene, where Elrond and Aragorn are in profile is still weird. I could swear that neither one is facing the other (as if they filmed their parts at different times) and Elrond’s half of the screen is weirdly lit–he looks almost lavender. A NEW irk: the “encampment”. Ok-we need to move 6000 spears in less than 3 days. I know! Let’s tire out the horses AND the men by making them climb this great switchback just for ONE night! Oh, and let’s set up really, really elaborate tents, especially Theoden’s (he be King, man), that will take at least 6 hours to break down. Sounds like a plan. Let’s do it! Dorky looking elves, looking insipid in their dress robes (oops, wrong fantasy), standing about while Aragorn gets crowned. I almost cringed at the reuniting of Arwen and Big A. The banner is not impressive and the pole looks like plastic to me. I don’t see Arwen being coy behind a banner, anyway. I wanted Aragorn to go to the mountainside and see the [whatever plant] blooming! If I can’t have the Shire scoured, I should be able to see that at least. Hmmph. O God, yet another time we see Frodo wake up in bed. Was it all a dream, Dorothy? And what’s with the insane laughter? #2 son explained it to me: “mom, they’re glad it’s all over.” Well duh. But laughter immediately? :dubious: Pleases: Liked the small scene of Eowyn and Faramir, but it needed more substance. Also liked the houses of healing, but wanted the comic bit with the apothecary. Forgot that Aragorn (the NON wanker) says to Eowyn “ever since I first saw you, I have wished you joy.” Still feels like at least one scene between them was cut from the final film, though. Little grimace Aragorn gives as he listens to Sauron’s rep. (needs toothpaste). Evil look Frodo gets once he decided to keep the ring. I like Frodo and Sam on their rock. Their route to get there was something out of a B sci-fi film (the lava rushing out of the entrance to me looks square), but once they’re on the rock, it’s ok. I could go on, but my fingers are tired and I have errands to run. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/little-things-that-irk-please-you-in-lotr-films/464980.md?page=10)