# LIV Golf tees off **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** golf\ **Created:** [June 7, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832 "2022-06-07T19:49:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/41 "2022-07-21T12:34:32Z")
Let’s be honest here. Human greed has always heavily outweighed human morality when it is all said and done. Playing over there or not playing over there isn’t going to change who the Saudi Arabians are or what they do iota. The golfers may as well earn whatever money they can while they can. Besides, the PGA tour mostly consists of and is almost exclusively run by rich, conservative Republican white men who voted for and would probably vote again for Trump. I find the PGA passing judgment on Saudi Arabia rather humorous to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/42 "2022-07-21T12:37:20Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The PGA is invested in China, but it’s not China bankrolling the PGA and using it as a beard to purchase legitimacy on the world stage. Okay, but that sounds like the PGA Tour, and the NBA, and all of those companies, are _voluntarily_ “sportswashing” China just for profits. Frankly, that seems worse to me. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/43 "2022-07-21T15:22:46Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Okay, but that sounds like the PGA Tour, and the NBA, and all of those companies, are _voluntarily_ “sportswashing” China just for profits. Frankly, that seems worse to me. Doesn’t seem to be working all that well, if so. The relationship seems pretty mercenary on all sides, to be honest. Money talks up to a point. And that point is direct funding by the Chinese government, which doesn’t happen. I’m not sure if that’s “better” or more moral but it’s certainly more honest. The one thing I will say for the PGA is that at least it’s mostly a non-profit. It was mainly for tax reasons but they do serious spending on charity to maintain that status. That’s part of the reason several players went the LIV route - the PGA cannot easily increase their paydays without significant re-jiggering by more or less cutting the charitable giving out. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/44 "2022-07-21T20:06:19Z")
I still say that putting money into an oppressive regime is far more morally problematic than taking money from an oppressive regime, and yet, that’s the one that almost everyone is OK with. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/45 "2022-07-23T01:24:51Z")
[Official World Golf Ranking now starting to consider adding LIV. Possibly. Potentially.](http://www.owgr.com/news/2022/statement-12th-july) [What’s on YouTube when there’s not a tournament going on that moment.](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=LIV) Still nothing on ESPN. I think this tells you all you need to know about how viable or influential this thing is ever going to be. It doesn’t matter if they get this aging star or that sorta-famous commentator. It’s a glorified skins game with literally nothing going for it other than great massive wads of cash. Zero credibility, zero clout, zero future prospects. There are a measly 8 events on the schedule and something like 50 players, and again, anything more than that is going to send prices even further through the roof. The stars that matter don’t want anything to do with it, the sponsors that matter don’t want anything to do with it, and the networks that matter don’t want anything to do with it. When Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy both tell you to cram it, you know you’re not going to be one of the big boys. As for DCnDC’s question, well, with the caveat that this isn’t a subject I’ve ever had a super-powerful opinion on, so expecting a snap response might have been a _bit_ unrealistic: it’s a matter of scale. In other words, a tour which has a _small_ presence in China and gets a _small percentage_ of sponsorship money from Chinese interests is much easier to tolerate than a tour _created by the government of Saudi Arabia_ for the _explicit_ purpose of sportswashing its extensive record of human rights abuses. I mean, worst case scenario: Let’s say you’re a militant Taiwanese golfer and you refuse to compete in any event played in or backed by China. That leaves open all four majors, the Players Championship, the entire FedEx Cup, nearly all the second-tier events (Barclays, Memorial, Phoenix Open, Houston Open, Pebble Beach Pro-Am), and any number of local or overseas tournaments. Unless you have a truly whirlwind schedule, omitting China would be so trivial that it’d be essentially an empty gesture. I seriously doubt Scottie Scheffler has ever lost any sleep over giving material aid to an oppressive government. Anyway if Charles Barkley does get the offer, I say take the money while it’s still there. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/46 "2022-08-04T02:51:24Z")
And we’ve hit the “let’s give a shitton of money to lawyers” phase of the LIV tour, as the Saudis foot the bill for 10 players to sue the PGA for anti-trust violations. Fun! ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/47 "2022-08-10T15:42:27Z")
Three players who signed with LIV Golf sought a temporary restraining order to allow them to compete in the first leg of the PGA Tour playoffs. A federal judge told them to go spit. > **[Judge rejects LIV trio's bid to play in FedEx Cup](https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34375643/federal-judge-rejects-bid-three-liv-golfers-compete-fedex-cup-playoffs)** > > A federal judge on Tuesday denied a temporary restraining order to three golfers who were seeking to participate in the FedEx Cup Playoffs after leaving the PGA Tour for the upstart LIV Golf Invitational Series. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/48 "2022-08-20T01:57:09Z")
[A Saudi Court sentenced a grad student who was home visiting family to 34 years for quoting and tweeting dissdent statements that were critical of the Saudi government](https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/world/saudi-woman-34-years-prison-for-following-retweeting-dissidents-twitter-8094453/lite/). Just to remind people of exactly the kind of authoritarian, despicable conduct the Saudi family are trying to sportswash away. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/49 "2022-08-27T16:26:39Z")
Today I just learned that LIV isn’t a three letter acronym for something, it’s the Roman numeral 54. I don’t follow golf closely at all, and if it’s been mentioned in a sportscast somewhere I didn’t catch it – I’ve only seen it in print. So I guess I’ve been saying it wrong in my head all this time. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/50 "2022-08-27T16:35:36Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I don’t follow golf closely at all, and if it’s been mentioned in a sportscast somewhere I didn’t catch it – I’ve only seen it in print. I had read that LIV was for “54” in an article in the Washington Post a few months ago, about golfer Greg Norman, who has been spearheading the development of the tour for the Saudis. Apparently, part of the reason for the name is that their tournaments are 54 holes (3 days of 18 holes), rather than the 72 holes (4 days of 18 holes) in the PGA and most other major men’s tournaments; it also seems to be a reference to what your score would be if you played 18 holes on a par-72 course, and birdied each hole. > **[The Shark is on the attack again](https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/06/05/last-attack-greg-norman/)** > > With decades of resentment and an appetite for combat, golf legend Greg Norman is throwing his sport into chaos. This time, he’s doing it with Saudi money. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/51 "2023-06-06T14:28:57Z")
pga tour is merging with liv golf. this is a major golf shake up. this is breaking news on cnn, and was just announced 15 minutes ago. this is a stunning development. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/52 "2023-06-06T15:21:03Z")
Apparently under the deal, the Saudi Public Investment Fund (PIF) will become the “premier corporate sponsor” of the PGA Tour and the head of the PIF will join the PGA’s policy board. The Saudis just bought the PGA Tour. Fucking disgusting. > **[Golf unity: PGA Tour, World Tour merge with LIV](https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/37805785/pga-tour-liv-golf-dp-world-tour-announce-merger)** > > The PGA Tour, DP World Tour and the LIV Golf League have agreed to merge and move forward in a larger commercial business, the circuits announced. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/53 "2023-06-06T15:23:47Z")
LIV sues the PGA for anti-competitive practices. And the solution is…to go back to a monopoly. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/54 "2023-06-06T15:35:23Z")
Well there goes the “moral high ground” argument. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/55 "2023-06-06T15:41:05Z")
And every player who refused to take the Saudi money and stuck with the PGA is now an absolute chump. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/56 "2023-06-06T15:51:05Z")
If the Saudis planned this from the beginning, it was beyond brilliant. It couldn’t have possibly worked out better. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/57 "2023-06-06T16:36:11Z")
I watch a lot of golf. I guess I should say watched. I have to say I’m SHOCKED to find how little moral fiber the golf game has. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/58 "2023-06-06T16:39:04Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I have to say I’m SHOCKED to find how little moral fiber the golf game has. It’s almost as if this whole thing is all about the sweet, sweet money. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/59 "2023-06-06T18:04:15Z")
It’s not like I needed another reason not to follow golf, but it’s nice of the PGA to give me a spare. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832/60 "2023-06-06T18:34:08Z")
> It’s not like I needed another reason not to follow golf, but it’s nice of the PGA to give me a bogey. This isn’t bowling. Corrected for golf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liv-golf-tees-off/965832.md?page=4)