# Livimg Arrangements for military D.I.s **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185 "2012-10-19T00:56:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/21 "2012-10-20T04:16:45Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I second this. Thank you, Bear\_Nenno. > > Here’s another question I’ve wanted to ask. Is it true that swearing and other personal insults (the kind of DI behavior seen in Full Metal Jacket), is no longer allowed? “Extreme Profanity” is trainee abuse according to TR 350-6. However, it isn’t defined. So what constitutes “extreme” is different from one leader to the next. It seems that the higher up a person is in rank or position, the more restrictive his interpretation is. So, as you can imagine, language discretion has a lot to do with who is around. Within the company, general profanity is not considered extreme. However, if the battalion commander is in earshot of more than a fuck or two, you will probably hear about it later. If the garrison sergeant major is around and overhears a “dick”, you might get reprimanded on the spot… > [@](#): > > I just don’t understand why a DI can’t use whatever he feels necessary to motivate and train, and if swearing was part of his thing, so be it. I could go on for hours about this. > [@](#): > > What would happen if you would call a recruit a “disgusting fat body”? Depends on who hears it. Recruits get called worse than that on a daily basis. Such treatment, however, is considered harsh and abusive. The drill sergeant could receive a verbal or written reprimand or possibly even a suspension. Really depends on who is pushing the issue. > [@](#): > > or punch a recruit in the stomach, like Harman did to Joker? Removed from position, revocation of drill sergeant hat and badge, and probably even a reduction in rank. Career ender to say the least. > [@](#): > > Or perhaps use racial slurs? What is the punishment for the DI? Same as above. Zero tolerance for such a thing. IMO, this is worse than the first two. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/22 "2012-10-20T04:22:59Z")
NETA: If the recruit wants to press charges for getting punched or choked, there is nothing protecting the drill sergeant from that. He would face the same criminal charges and punishment as anyone else. That is in addition to the administrative punishments already mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/23 "2012-10-20T04:29:10Z")
Alot of your answers angered me, not because they arent the truth, but because of what weve permitted our military to turn into. A politically correct DI and training experiene makes little sense to me when it doesnt reflect the real world, and when it can alter the training to where a recruit has the power to end your career because his feelings were hurt. I can understand actual physical abuse… Where a DI is pounding on a weaker recruit for whatever reason. But (and i’ll use FMJ’s Hartman again here), when he says " there is no racial bigotry here. I do not like niggers, wops, kikes, or greasers. You are all equally worthless.". I would think that a recruit would feel better about the fact that they are all on the same level with other recruits, and not really care so much if a word hurt his feelings. I find it especially artificial when you consider all the racial names the military comes up with to de-humqnize the enemy, making it much easier to kill a “gook” than a “vietnamese person.” I don’t know. Maybe it works just as well. I have never had to go through a bssic training. But as someone who wants our military to be the best in the world, i would like to see the softer side of recruit training disappear. You are essentially training killers, and yet you have to watch your language while doing so? Its insane to me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/24 "2012-10-20T04:53:20Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I second this. Thank you, Bear\_Nenno. > > Here’s another question I’ve wanted to ask. Is it true that swearing and other personal insults (the kind of DI behavior seen in Full Metal Jacket), is no longer allowed? I just don’t understand why a DI can’t use whatever he feels necessary to motivate and train, and if swearing was part of his thing, so be it. > > What would happen if you would call a recruit a “disgusting fat body”? or punch a recruit in the stomach, like Harman did to Joker? Or perhaps use racial slurs? What is the punishment for the DI? I watched Full Metal Jacket with my father. He was Parris Island class of 1945. He said the recruit part felt so real he was having flashbacks. Sometime later I saw a documentary about the history of the NCO. In it they talked to a modern Marine D.I. and he explained how they used psychology to break down and then build the recruits back up. Then they switched to R. Lee Ermy and he said (forgive the paraphrasing), “During Viet Nam they shortened Boot Camp and doubled our class sizes. We were trying to teach draftees enough to keep them alive in combat. We didn’t have time to play games. So when we had to we beat the shit outta them.” Times have changed. In fact they changed a long time ago. Although no one much cared about cursing in 1989 when I did it, it was the end of a career if the Drill laid a hand on a recruit. Bear confirmed how I remember our Drills schedule way back when in Fort Knox. Bear how much time between recruit classes? I remember being told that they got to relax for a couple of weeks and just perform admin tasks. Is that still the case? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/25 "2012-10-20T05:27:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Bear how much time between recruit classes? I remember being told that they got to relax for a couple of weeks and just perform admin tasks. Is that still the case? Usually it is 2-3 weeks. But it can vary a lot. In fact, there is a company in the battalion who graduated a week or two ago and they do not start a new cycle until after New Year. How that happened, I have no idea. Lucky them. My current cycle graduates next week. The next one starts after Thanksgiving. The time off is spent preparing for the next cycle, getting some rest, and enjoying weekends again. It’s a good time to either take leave, or attend a military school. During this break, I will be going to Pathfinder school. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/26 "2012-10-20T11:28:31Z")
“Was that sand-flea a male or a female?” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/27 "2012-10-20T11:54:36Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Alot of your answers angered me, not because they arent the truth, but because of what weve permitted our military to turn into. A politically correct DI and training experiene makes little sense to me when it doesnt reflect the real world, and when it can alter the training to where a recruit has the power to end your career because his feelings were hurt. > > I can understand actual physical abuse… Where a DI is pounding on a weaker recruit for whatever reason. But (and i’ll use FMJ’s Hartman again here), when he says " there is no racial bigotry here. I do not like niggers, wops, kikes, or greasers. You are all equally worthless.". I would think that a recruit would feel better about the fact that they are all on the same level with other recruits, and not really care so much if a word hurt his feelings. I find it especially artificial when you consider all the racial names the military comes up with to de-humqnize the enemy, making it much easier to kill a “gook” than a “vietnamese person.” > > I don’t know. Maybe it works just as well. I have never had to go through a bssic training. But as someone who wants our military to be the best in the world, i would like to see the softer side of recruit training disappear. You are essentially training killers, and yet you have to watch your language while doing so? Its insane to me. Softer side? Personal physical abuse accomplishes very little, just as torture usually elicits very little useful information. The lack of one-on-one physical abuse doesn’t mean that a recruit isn’t subjected to group torture, or physical training, as it euphemistically referred to. While our company commander wasn’t allowed to smack anybody around, he could certainly PT the whole company (or just a squad) until they wished they were dead. It was misery, but it was a shared misery. Make no mistake, the DI is not there to coddle recruits or hold their hands. He’s there to make sure that you understand that a military unit functions as a coherent team, and that you are an effective member of that team. Name calling foments resentment, isolates people, and encourages racism; it does NOT build character, and has no place in the training of a military unit. If it was an effective tool, corporations would use it as a team-building exercise. Creative cursing, however, is a proud military tradition. When it becomes personally abusive, it’s ineffective. When it’s overused, it becomes background noise. So what’s the point? We never really had time off. On Sunday, we were forced to attend some sort of religious service, whether we believed in any of it or not. That was okay, as it was a break from the marching, drilling and classes. But the rest of the day was spent making sure boots were shined, uniforms were ready, cleaning of the barracks (a daily chore), etc. Near the end of boot camp we were given a one day “boot camp liberty” in downtown San Diego. By that time, they figured we probably weren’t going to desert. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/28 "2012-10-20T14:02:01Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Softer side? Personal physical abuse accomplishes very little, just as torture usually elicits very little useful information. The lack of one-on-one physical abuse doesn’t mean that a recruit isn’t subjected to group torture, or physical training, as it euphemistically referred to. While our company commander wasn’t allowed to smack anybody around, he could certainly PT the whole company (or just a squad) until they wished they were dead. It was misery, but it was a shared misery. Make no mistake, the DI is not there to coddle recruits or hold their hands. He’s there to make sure that you understand that a military unit functions as a coherent team, and that you are an effective member of that team. > > Name calling foments resentment, isolates people, and encourages racism; it does NOT build character, and has no place in the training of a military unit. If it was an effective tool, corporations would use it as a team-building exercise. Creative cursing, however, is a proud military tradition. When it becomes personally abusive, it’s ineffective. When it’s overused, it becomes background noise. So what’s the point? > > We never really had time off. On Sunday, we were forced to attend some sort of religious service, whether we believed in any of it or not. That was okay, as it was a break from the marching, drilling and classes. But the rest of the day was spent making sure boots were shined, uniforms were ready, cleaning of the barracks (a daily chore), etc. Near the end of boot camp we were given a one day “boot camp liberty” in downtown San Diego. By that time, they figured we probably weren’t going to desert. I have stated this is other threads. I have no doubt others were forced to go to church. But it was not that way for us. Those of us who chose to stay behind we’re supposed to clean or study or spit shine our boots. But really the Drill that was there to watch us just walked through a few times. That is where I perfected laying under a bunk and hooking my fingers in the springs. Made it look like you were tightening up the blanket while letting you get a couple winks. Sunday afternoon was back to training. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/29 "2012-10-20T14:03:22Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Usually it is 2-3 weeks. But it can vary a lot. In fact, there is a company in the battalion who graduated a week or two ago and they do not start a new cycle until after New Year. How that happened, I have no idea. Lucky them. > My current cycle graduates next week. The next one starts after Thanksgiving. The time off is spent preparing for the next cycle, getting some rest, and enjoying weekends again. It’s a good time to either take leave, or attend a military school. During this break, I will be going to Pathfinder school. Thanks. Seems like the way they schedule things haven’t changed much. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/30 "2012-10-20T14:37:07Z")
IIRC, wasn’t a lot of the boot camp abuse curtailled back in the 80’s or early 90’s when it came out that the Marines(?) had ragged on a “challenged” recruit to the point where he died during a wilderness march. It’s one thing to mold someone psychologically, it’s another to inflict pain or death from what appeared to be at best callous and at worst sadistic behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/31 "2012-10-20T15:34:49Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Alot of your answers angered me, not because they arent the truth… You can’t handle the truth! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/32 "2012-10-20T16:15:06Z")
Also, don’t a lot of military (and non-military) basically suck in terms of every Saturday afternoon at home with your feet up? The Navy especially comes to mind. Yet, lots of married people do this, many stay married. How would a DI compare to these other jobs? Is it really significantly worse, as the OP seems to be thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/33 "2012-10-22T05:05:58Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > But as someone who wants our military to be the best in the world, i would like to see the softer side of recruit training disappear. You are essentially training killers, and yet you have to watch your language while doing so? Its insane to me. Our military already is the best in the world. Boot camp and training has evolved and improved. I was never a D.I., but those guys (and ladies) do a great job. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/34 "2012-10-22T05:07:01Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > MCRD, 1969, Weekends off? Got to be kidding. > > Why a D.I? Can’t say for sure, but considering the amount of respect I have for these guys, pride must play a part. For career Marines, a couple years as a D. I. is good for career advancement. > > As professed by many over the years, for guys you start out disliking, how you view them in hindsight sure changes. MCRD, 1980. Same thing - what is a day off? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/35 "2012-10-22T05:08:04Z")
**Bear\_Nenno** , am curious, what were your reasons for wanting to become a drill sergeant? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/36 "2012-10-22T06:43:27Z")
Was Sgt Carter a DI in _Gomer Pyle_? I figured he was a regular platoon sergeant. The series ran for five years. Surely even a screw-up like Pyle must have made it out of Basic in that amount of time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/37 "2012-10-22T06:47:20Z")
The OP missed one well-known fictional DI: Sgt Ross (USA), played by Hal Williams, in the movie and TV series _Private Benjamin_. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/38 "2012-10-22T10:37:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Was Sgt Carter a DI in _Gomer Pyle_? I figured he was a regular platoon sergeant. The series ran for five years. Surely even a screw-up like Pyle must have made it out of Basic in that amount of time. From [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomer_Pyle,_U.S.M.C.): > [@](#): > > Vince Carter (played by Frank Sutton), a gunnery sergeant from Kansas, is Gomer’s irritable drill instructor (later his platoon sergeant) who is constantly annoyed by Gomer’s well-intentioned mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/39 "2012-10-22T13:58:49Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > AAny number of reasons. In the Army, at least, that reason could also be “forced to”. I think I heard the Marine Corps only takes volunteers for the job. Not sure if that is the case. But the Army takes volunteers and voluntolds. Either way, it is an excellent career move. The Marine Corps are still volunteers, and it’s a pretty competitive position. The only guys I knew who went in to Drill were top notch. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185/40 "2012-10-22T14:45:55Z")
On active duty if you stay in for long enough you will most likely be voluntold at some point to become a recruiter or instructor. Not all instructors are Drill Sergeants. These things are supposed to be handled with your career manager at the branch level. A successful tour can be marginally good for your career advancement. A mediocre or bad review during that time can be the end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/livimg-arrangements-for-military-d-i-s/638185.md?page=3)