# living paycheck to paycheck **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004 "2018-12-31T21:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/61 "2019-01-02T00:03:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Bah humbug. > > Care to list some of those positions that you’d like to see eliminated? Like, not “hypothetical jobs”, actual working positions? Where’s the waste you want to see go? Let’s try not to hijack the poor thread. But I’ll note that the government is partially “shut down” right now and I’m not missing any of the functions that are on hold. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/62 "2019-01-02T00:17:04Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > Everyone who’s ever lived has made a ‘poor life choice’. It’s part of growing as a person. But you know what? Someone who’s born into privilege is going to be less affected by those choices than someone who wasn’t. As much as some people want to throw the blame on those of us struggling to just make ends meet, many of us were put in a shitty situation before we even had the ability to make those choices. Again, some people are able to pull themselves out of it, but you can’t look down on those who weren’t able to. Especially not knowing their circumstances. It’s not just poor life choices. It’s also poor spending habits. (Which I guess is a subset of poor life choices.) I know a number of people are chronically - year after year - living paycheck to paycheck. Always broke or on the verge of being broke. They all play the victim card. Yet when you take a close look at each of their situations, it boils down to poor choices, bad habits, bad behaviors, and poor spending decisions. On the latter, it never ceases to amaze me when the poor people I know insist on buying or leasing a new (or almost new) vehicle. “But I _must_ have a new car - I can’t afford a breakdown!” :rolleyes: Meanwhile, I am driving a 2002 Saturn with 274K miles. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/63 "2019-01-02T00:48:43Z")
That’s not necessarily a bad choice. The paycheck to paycheck person may be able to plan for and pay the consistent $225/month for the lease car. What he/she can’t afford is the sudden and unexpected expense when his old beater has a ball joint, radiator, battery, transmission, etc. problem. He/she also probably doesn’t have the flexibility to deal with the breakdown day, nor whatever additional business hours are needed to get the car to repair then get the problem taken care of. These will likely be unpaid leave, costing even more money. And the absences may jeopardize continued employment, depending on the industry and the proclivities of the boss. So it can actually make financial good sense to say “I need a new car, I can’t afford a breakdown!” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/64 "2019-01-02T00:53:22Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > It’s not just poor life choices. It’s also poor spending habits. (Which I guess is a subset of poor life choices.) > > I know a number of people are chronically - year after year - living paycheck to paycheck. Always broke or on the verge of being broke. They all play the victim card. Yet when you take a close look at each of their situations, it boils down to poor choices, bad habits, bad behaviors, and poor spending decisions. On the latter, it never ceases to amaze me when the poor people I know insist on buying or leasing a new (or almost new) vehicle. “But I _must_ have a new car - I can’t afford a breakdown!” :rolleyes: Meanwhile, I am driving a 2002 Saturn with 274K miles. Agreed. For reference, I’m certainly _not_ ‘living paycheck to paycheck’, but I currently drive a '99 Toyota 4Runner with 280k miles on it. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/65 "2019-01-02T01:03:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Agreed. For reference, I’m certainly _not_ ‘living paycheck to paycheck’, but I currently drive a '99 Toyota 4Runner with 280k miles on it. Well, **I’ll** have you know that I don’t live paycheck to paycheck, but _I_ drive a '97 Honda Accord with 60k miles on it. Well, ok, I did, but I bought a 2012 Prius in 2018… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/66 "2019-01-02T01:07:39Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Well, **I’ll** have you know that I don’t live paycheck to paycheck, but _I_ drive a '97 Honda Accord with 60k miles on it. Well, ok, I did, but I bought a 2012 Prius in 2018… Hey man, if it’s working for you, keep at it. Good luck in the New Year. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/67 "2019-01-02T01:11:00Z")
The problem for many people living paycheck to paycheck is that they might be otherwise financially prudent people, but are simply stuck in a deep hole and cannot get over that first hump. Things like interest payments and other emergencies or things ensure that they are stuck. They need something like a sudden victory in a small lottery or unexpected inheritance from unknown relatives (i.e., a few tens of thousands of dollars) to help get them over that initial hump; to prime their pump and really get their engine going, so to speak - but they just lack that first initial boost. Unfortunately, they are all but certain not to get it. They’re just one big boost away. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/68 "2019-01-02T01:31:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … They’re just one big boost away. I doubt that’s true of “many” people living paycheck to paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/69 "2019-01-02T02:42:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > So… how do you know to look? Like, how do you _know_ that your financial planning is bad? What do you mean? The only way people don’t know to look for a solution to a problem, is if they don’t consider it a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/70 "2019-01-02T02:44:05Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > ’ > > You are so right! I know all about the ‘good spending habits’ and I watch the early shows on the telly that tell me how to avoid cc debt and to economize on my utility bills. > > I know all that shit. It makes no difference when you are living on a low income and your essential bills eat up most of that. > > Nobody is claiming ignorance. But YOU are displaying yours **manson1972** > > :rolleyes: Sorry, but I don’t think I’m displaying ignorance when I say that there are 1000s of sites that can be read to figure out the answers to financial problems. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/71 "2019-01-02T02:50:25Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > It’s like, I can’t do anything better than I’m already doing. I’m a single mom, who gets no child support and relies on my family for everything that might go wrong. If you don’t mind me asking, why don’t you get child support? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/72 "2019-01-02T03:45:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If you don’t mind me asking, why don’t you get child support? The father could be dead, in jail, unable to work, unable to find a job, unskilled at anything that pays a decent wage, or the local government she lives in is just doing a a shit job of collecting. All quite common reasons. Oh, or the father could have multiple baby mamas and yet doesn’t make enough to cover the support for them all. Or she might not know his identity. Or he might have moved to a foreign country and be beyond reach. I wonder what percentage of single mothers even get the child support they are entitled to. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/73 "2019-01-02T04:02:49Z")
Yes, those are all good reasons. I was asking her. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/74 "2019-01-02T04:17:54Z")
Not saying that “two can live as cheaply as one” is completely true, but having someone to share the household expenses with can make a huge difference. Married, co-habiting, or simply roommates, paying half the rent on a two-bedroom apartment is generally a LOT cheaper that paying all the rent on a one-bedroom apartment, or even an efficiency. I think the rise in percentage of single adult households is much larger factor in people barely getting by than is generally mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/75 "2019-01-02T06:04:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If you don’t mind me asking, why don’t you get child support? He’s a Japanese citizen living in Japan. Japan as a country barely upholds court ordered child support between two of their own citizens, let alone a foreigner. As for everything else being said in this thread, I’m not even going to bother replying anymore to it. Most everyone who has the belief that poor people are poor because they lack the skills/desire/fortitude to not be poor, are not going to change their minds no matter what I say. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/76 "2019-01-02T06:48:37Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > The father could be dead, in jail, unable to work, unable to find a job, unskilled at anything that pays a decent wage, or the local government she lives in is just doing a a shit job of collecting. All quite common reasons. Oh, or the father could have multiple baby mamas and yet doesn’t make enough to cover the support for them all. Or she might not know his identity. Or he might have moved to a foreign country and be beyond reach. I wonder what percentage of single mothers even get the child support they are entitled to. If a parent is dead, the children can usually get Social Security, and the living parent can too if they were married at the time of death. As for child support nonpayers, men are even less likely than women to get the support they’re due, although the reasons for that are quite complicated. I don’t have to count pennies now, but I have in the past, and I am grateful I did not have to do that with other people being dependent on me. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/77 "2019-01-02T06:49:13Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Let’s try not to hijack the poor thread. But I’ll note that the government is partially “shut down” right now and I’m not missing any of the functions that are on hold. Should I make another thread? Because I think this is worth going over, and I’d quite like to know what functions you think we can permanently get rid of. Is it the coast guard? The FBI? NASA? The IRS? All of these agencies are affected by the shutdown, and the fact that you, personally, are not missing any of their functions says very little about their actual utility, or whether anyone else needs them. ``` Department of the Treasury Department of Agriculture Homeland Security Department Department of the Interior Department of State Department of Housing and Urban Development Department of Transportation Department of Commerce Department of Justice ``` Those are the departments that close down completely. Can you tell me what any of them actually do? I’m calling you out, because this is a common pattern among people on the right. “We could trim so much fat from the government!” “Okay, what? Be specific.” “Uhhhhhhh…” > [@Slash1972](#): > > What do you mean? The only way people don’t know to look for a solution to a problem, is if they don’t consider it a problem. Or if you don’t know that a solution is possible. If you don’t know that it’s possible to do it better. If you know you have a problem, but don’t know that it’s a problem that’s _possible_ to fix. It’s not a trivial issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/78 "2019-01-02T12:07:25Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, those are all good reasons. I was asking her. “Find all threads started by…” will give you a smorgasbord of “life decisions”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/79 "2019-01-02T12:13:52Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > “Find all threads started by…” will give you a smorgasbord of “life decisions”. That was … fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004/80 "2019-01-02T12:40:23Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > He’s a Japanese citizen living in Japan. Japan as a country barely upholds court ordered child support between two of their own citizens, let alone a foreigner. > > As for everything else being said in this thread, I’m not even going to bother replying anymore to it. Most everyone who has the belief that poor people are poor because they lack the skills/desire/fortitude to not be poor, are not going to change their minds no matter what I say. > > Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk **AngelSoft** , most of the people who judge you will never cop to having been in a paycheck-to-paycheck circumstance themselves, even though just about everyone who isn’t a trust fund baby has found themselves in this predicament at some time in their life. This is certainly true for me. I only got out of it by increasing my income, not by curbing my spending–since practically all the spending I was doing was for basic survival. “Poor choices” are always discovered after the fact. Moving to VA from South Florida transformed my finances, but this was due to good luck, not to any wise strategery on my part. It could have easily been a “poor choice” if I had made that decision just a little later than I had (the Great Recession would have gotten me). We tell people they have to take risks to be successful, but then when this advice is followed and success doesn’t pan out, we turn around and talk about “poor choices”. This way we can be smug regardless who we’re talking to. People can judge you all day long about the choices you’ve made, but I suspect all the choices you’ve made seemed reasonable at the time, given the options available to you. And even if you’ve made some “unreasonable” ones, I suspect they were no more unreasonable than the kind of choices other people make but somehow manage not to suffer from. So don’t let the haters get to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-paycheck-to-paycheck/827004.md?page=5)