# Living wage in the USA **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111 "2017-12-23T04:03:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/1 "2017-12-23T04:03:03Z")
I have seen recently that Skywest are advertising in Australia for pilots. The blurb talks about “great pay” and various other benefits. Sounds great! Unfortunately it seems that “great pay” equates to less than half as much as what a similarly qualified pilot would get in Australia, but it is hard to tell without knowing what the cost of living is like in the USA. So here’s the IMHO question: Is $34,000 - $41,000 per year a living wage in the USA? Is it good? Bad? Great? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/2 "2017-12-23T04:03:53Z")
Depends on where the person would be living. And it depends on what “living wage” means. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/3 "2017-12-23T04:07:50Z")
Not much. Median household income for 2016 is $59,000. Don’t forget healthcare costs here. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/4 "2017-12-23T04:11:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Depends on where the person would be living. And it depends on what “living wage” means. Agreed. It’ll get you a lot farther in, say, Birmingham, Alabama, than it will in Chicago or San Francisco. It’s also going to be dependent on that person’s household situation. A single person without much debt? It’s probably not bad, unless they’re living in a major city – and, similarly, if the person has a spouse or partner making a similar amount, it’d help a lot. If, on the other hand, the person is a sole breadwinner, and has dependents (children, a stay-at-home spouse), it may not go very far. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/5 "2017-12-23T04:12:51Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Don’t forget healthcare costs here. Good point, particularly if the job doesn’t include health insurance (or includes it, but it’s not a great policy). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/6 "2017-12-23T04:13:16Z")
I guess by “living wage” I mean being able to sustain a comfortable life style, own a house, car, big TV, stereo, eat out once a week, and drink a few beers occasionally. As for where, they have bases at the following: Atlanta Boise Chicago O’Hare Denver Detroit Houston Los Angeles Minneapolis Palm Springs Phoenix Portland Salt Lake City San Diego San Francisco Seattle Tucson Are any of those particularly expensive or cheap to live in? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/7 "2017-12-23T04:15:17Z")
Living wage means “owning a house” now? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/8 "2017-12-23T04:21:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Living wage means “owning a house” now? Ok, pay a mortgage, I don’t expect it to be owned outright. Or pay rent for a place without having to share. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/9 "2017-12-23T04:23:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It’s also going to be dependent on that person’s household situation. A single person without much debt? It’s probably not bad, unless they’re living in a major city – and, similarly, if the person has a spouse or partner making a similar amount, it’d help a lot. Assume either a single person or a family with two young children where both parents are earning the same amount. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/10 "2017-12-23T04:26:42Z")
Generally speaking, the bigger the city (in the continental U.S., anyway), the higher the cost of living. There are lots of websites that do comparisons of relative costs of living in different cities. [I found this one](https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index/north-america); it’s a world site, and it uses Prague as its baseline – so, the absolute numbers are indexed to Prague (which probably doesn’t help you wrap your head around what the numbers mean), but the relative numbers give you an idea. From your list, New York, San Francisco, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Denver, and Minneapolis are all in the top 25 highest cost-of-living indices for North American cities on the site I found. Boise’s down at #97. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/11 "2017-12-23T04:28:37Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Assume either a single person or a family with two young children where both parents are earning the same amount. If we’re talking about a couple with two young children (and one of them is an airline pilot, who I assume will often be away from home), childcare can be a not-insignificant expense. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/12 "2017-12-23T04:30:30Z")
That’s useful, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/13 "2017-12-23T04:31:30Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > If we’re talking about a couple with two young children (and one of them is an airline pilot, who I assume will often be away from home), childcare can be a not-insignificant expense. Both of them are airline pilots so they’d probably need a nanny. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/14 "2017-12-23T04:48:48Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Both of them are airline pilots so they’d probably need a nanny. Especially if they’re relocating to the U.S. from Australia, which’d very likely mean that they wouldn’t have any family locally who could help them out with childcare (i.e., no grandmother who can watch the kids in the afternoon while mom and dad are working). So, two pilots, earning a total of between $70K and $80K, but in addition to the expenses of having two young children, it sounds like they might possibly need to hire a full-time, live-in childcare person. This isn’t exactly my area of expertise, but it doesn’t exactly sound like they’re going to be living comfortably, especially if they’re in a bigger / more expensive market. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/15 "2017-12-23T04:51:23Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Especially if they’re relocating to the U.S. from Australia, which’d very likely mean that they wouldn’t have any family locally who could help them out with childcare (i.e., no grandmother who can watch the kids in the afternoon while mom and dad are working). > > So, two pilots, earning a total of between $70K and $80K, but in addition to the expenses of having two young children, it sounds like they might possibly need to hire a full-time, live-in childcare person. This isn’t exactly my area of expertise, but it doesn’t exactly sound like they’re going to be living comfortably, especially if they’re in a bigger / more expensive market. Yeah, it’s interesting to think about, but doesn’t seem viable. Thanks for your input. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/16 "2017-12-23T04:58:34Z")
According to [this website](https://www.pea.com/airline-pilot-salary/) airline pilots starting salary is in the range of $20,000 to $40,000 annually. I’d think experienced pilots would want at least $40,000 a year based on those figures. And even that is a pretty meager living for someone with special skills. [This website](http://work.chron.com/average-commercial-airline-pilots-salary-11855.html)confirms the starting salaries but also cites much higher salaries for experienced pilots. Perhaps $34,000 - $41,000 is a good starting point for a pilot with only a year or two of experience. It could be the start on a track to a six figure salary some day. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/17 "2017-12-23T05:23:26Z")
Yeah the figures I quoted are from Skywest. Working their guaranteed 76 hours per month and earning ~$38 - ~ $45 depending on years of service. You get more if you do more hours of course. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/18 "2017-12-23T12:26:29Z")
A local retail store here is touting that it’s now paying employees a “living wage.” According to their marketing spiel, that works out to $9.50-$11 / hour, 30 hours a week. I was like… :dubious: Granted, my town is not as expensive as a big city, but it is the largest town in the area, and has enough competition for housing that it’s not dirt-cheap. $11/hour for 30 hours/week works out to a high of $1320/month before taxes. I don’t know how one could pay rent, car payment (mass transit here is awful), food, & health care on that, much less any extras (savings, children, etc.) Maybe you’re not starving, but you’re not exactly comfortable either. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/19 "2017-12-23T13:03:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I guess by “living wage” I mean being able to sustain a comfortable life style, own a house, car, big TV, stereo, eat out once a week, and drink a few beers occasionally. > > As for where, they have bases at the following: > > Atlanta > Boise > Chicago O’Hare > Denver > Detroit > Houston > Los Angeles > Minneapolis > Palm Springs > Phoenix > Portland > Salt Lake City > San Diego > San Francisco > Seattle > Tucson > > Are any of those particularly expensive or cheap to live in? You could live in the south Chicago suburbs with that par range. Your house would be small, and your commute to the city would take over an hour each way. This assumes, as mentioned above, that your health insurance was taken care of for you. (If you have to pay for it yourself, forget owning a house on 30-40 grand a year.) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111/20 "2017-12-23T13:04:54Z")
Can’t edit- should say pay, not par. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-in-the-usa/805111.md?page=2)