# Living wage? We don't need no stinkin' living wage! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306 "2012-02-09T13:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/1 "2012-02-09T13:41:24Z")
> **[I Couldn't Afford to Go to Work Today](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/07/1051233/-I-Couldn-t-Afford-to-Go-to-Work-Today)** > > It's crazy, but it's true: I could not afford to go to work today. > > I have a 45-minute commute to and from work, which costs me about ten dollars in gas each day. I'm down to six whole dollars, ... > [@](#): > > I Couldn’t Afford to Go to Work Today > I have a 45-minute commute to and from work, which costs me about ten dollars in gas each day. I’m down to six whole dollars, after paying what bills I could with my last paycheck. There are still unpaid bills, but there’s nothing I can do about them right now. I’m mostly worried about how the hell I’m going to feed my daughter until my next check on Friday. > > This is not a position I ever expected to find myself in. I have a full-time job at a distribution center for a well-known retailer. The company has weathered the Great Recession pretty well, all things considered: overall sales are off by only 1%, a variance which until recently would have been seen as a business hiccup. But I find that the recession itself has given the Powers That Be at my job an excuse to do whatever they damn well please to their full-time employees. [More](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/07/1051233/-I-Couldn-t-Afford-to-Go-to-Work-Today) I know one of the first responses to this is that he should move closer to the job, but the man has house payments and selling a house is difficult these days, plus there’s a good chance he’s under water. I think he has a point when he complains about the execs making so much more and getting big bonuses but then telling the workers that the company has to cut back because of the economy. The man has a full time job and works hard trying to survive and raise his family. He’s seems to be doing everything right, but he has to choose between feeding his daughter and being able to get to work. Yes, I know that it’s possible that this particular article is made up or exaggerated, but does anyone really believe that there aren’t people in situations exactly like this? What’s the answer here? A union? An increase in the minimum wage? Ignoring it and telling people like this “too bad, so sorry”? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/2 "2012-02-09T14:10:15Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Ignoring it and telling people like this “too bad, so sorry”? That one. Given any economic situation, I could contrive a scenario where someone plays Bad Luck Chuck. This guy lives 45 frickin’ minutes from work and I’m supposed to feel bad for him? Furthermore, I’m supposed to believe this $10 in gas is more than he makes in a day? Boo fucking hoo. We make money. We spend money. We make sacrifices in between. It’s called life, and it ain’t free. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/3 "2012-02-09T14:18:33Z")
I have nothing positive to say here. When my company moved to save money on rent, I moved too, both to save money on rent and to save on gas. I could do something like that because I don’t have a family, so I don’t want a house, etc. This is most assuredly not a choice people should generally have to make. We need families. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/4 "2012-02-09T14:21:59Z")
Yeah. Why doesn’t this guy just get a job as a CEO of a major corporation. Then I bet he’d stop bitching. What a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/5 "2012-02-09T14:23:30Z")
Stuff like this (notably high level management using economic reasons to do whatever they pleased, underpay workers and so forth) is exactly the reason unions came about. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/6 "2012-02-09T14:23:41Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I know one of the first responses to this is that he should move closer to the job, but the man has house payments and selling a house is difficult these days, plus there’s a good chance he’s under water. A house, you say? He purchased a thrifty 700 sq foot house, right? No, probably not? I live in a 700 sq foot apartment and I make more than his supervisors. Which isn’t to say that the attitude of the salaried employees isn’t crass (if it’s accurate), but there’s blame to go all around here. (A house at $8 an hour? Really?) ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/7 "2012-02-09T14:26:08Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > This guy lives 45 frickin’ minutes from work and I’m supposed to feel bad for him? I don’t know where you live, but in all the places I’ve lived, a 45 minute commute is not uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/8 "2012-02-09T14:31:32Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > I don’t know where you live, but in all the places I’ve lived, a 45 minute commute is not uncommon. I live in D.C., so I feel ya, but in place where traffic makes 45 the norm, it also doesn’t cost $10 to go round-trip. If you get 20 miles to the gallon in city traffic, $10 would be 30 miles each way. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/9 "2012-02-09T14:36:41Z")
I live in MA and plenty of people commute in from New Hampshire to the Boston area. Even if they don’t work in the city proper, it’s a long commute. A classmate of mine at school drove an hour and a half each day. He also had a family, which is why he didn’t just pick up and move willy-nilly I’d guess (we didn’t discuss such things). ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/10 "2012-02-09T14:36:51Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Yeah. Why doesn’t this guy just get a job as a CEO of a major corporation. Then I bet he’d stop bitching. What a pussy. He doesn’t have to be CEO, he just needs to have a skill. He said himself that his company calls people like him “unskilled labor.” That means he’s cheap and replaceable. Crappy job skills = crappy job. It’s the way it should be. I don’t have contempt for people with no skills. I truly don’t. I don’t even have contempt for those that bitch about theses jobs. But I _do_ have contempt for those that think it’s unfair and those that think his lack of skills came about my happenstance. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/11 "2012-02-09T14:42:18Z")
This is the human face of stagnant wages. Expenses have gone up, paychecks have not, for decades. But don’t worry, Mitt Romney says we got a social safety net. And he will mend it with his silver thread and golden needles if it’s torn in places. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/12 "2012-02-09T15:08:34Z")
Has there ever been a time when someone wasn’t in this type of position? Too many bills and not enough income. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/13 "2012-02-09T15:18:36Z")
The problem here is that the company is apparently not doing poorly and yet they cry poor and make things more and more difficult for their workers while enriching management and throwing parties for them. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/14 "2012-02-09T15:23:03Z")
Also, my father was an unskilled (other than what he learned on the job) laborer and he managed to own a house and raise three sons, so I don’t necessarily buy the idea that unskilled labor should equal paltry wages. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/15 "2012-02-09T15:30:05Z")
Your father doesn’t sound like he was unskilled. Maybe when he started but not as he acquired skills on the job. There’s a lot to be said about on the job training. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/16 "2012-02-09T15:44:05Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I know one of the first responses to this is that he should move closer to the job, but the man has house payments and selling a house is difficult these days, plus there’s a good chance he’s under water. Isn’t it one of the causes of the current financial crisis that people bought more house than they could afford, and banks let them do it? > [@](#): > > The man has a full time job and works hard trying to survive and raise his family. He’s seems to be doing everything right, but he has to choose between feeding his daughter and being able to get to work. My Inner Economist says: If the company really isn’t paying enough that people like him can afford to work there, then they’re going to have trouble finding employees who _will_ work there, and the problem should correct itself. Is my Inner Economist wrong? > [@](#): > > What’s the answer here? A union? An increase in the minimum wage? Is he only making the minimum wage now? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/17 "2012-02-09T15:46:40Z")
We don’t know how much he makes or how he budgets his money other than that it costs him $10 in gas to commute each day. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/18 "2012-02-09T15:47:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is he only making the minimum wage now? The thread title is “living wage”, which is the idea that the minimum wage should be enough to provide a family the ability to live on. The implication being that $8 an hour is not enough (even if it is above the current minimum wage). ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/19 "2012-02-09T15:49:06Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > My Inner Economist says: If the company really isn’t paying enough that people like him can afford to work there, then they’re going to have trouble finding employees who _will_ work there, and the problem should correct itself. Is my Inner Economist wrong? Hunger also is self-correcting. When you starve too much, you aren’t hungry anymore because you’re dead. Is nature wrong? I don’t want to live in a world where I guy who wants to work for his family is considered an idiot for having a family. People who want to work and want to make more people are exactly the kind of people I want to support. What kind of society is this? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306/20 "2012-02-09T15:53:31Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The problem here is that the company is apparently not doing poorly and yet they cry poor and make things more and more difficult for their workers while enriching management and throwing parties for them. In your example of the OP, how is the company making it more difficult for the worker mentioned to commute? Did they move the store where he works? > [@](#): > > What’s the answer here? A union? An increase in the minimum wage? Ignoring it and telling people like this “too bad, so sorry”? I suppose he could organize a union if he likes - it’s perfectly legal the last time I checked. I don’t think an increase in the minimum wage is going to help - he isn’t making minimum wage. A living wage is still a silly idea, partly because it bogs down in definitions. This guy (or maybe the OP) want a living wage that covers a car payment, a house payment, and gas money for a 45 minute commute. It’s always going to be the case that people get caught living beyond their means when a recession hits. If we passed a law mandating wage increases that keep pace with the increase in oil prices, a) we will continue to use oil and contribute to global warming and send money to the Saudis, and b) people will have no incentive to avoid a 45 minute commute. Or an hour. Or buy an SUV. Which raises your car payment, and uses more gas. So you need another raise. Yes, it sucks to be poor and have a grunt job. This is news? Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-wage-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-living-wage/612306.md?page=2)