# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/341 "2018-07-30T20:10:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Wow. So in this one case of false accusations, which led to a fleecing of donors of around $1000… …[which is allegedly being returned.](https://www.theroot.com/texas-waiter-who-received-we-dont-tip-terrorist-note-ad-1827825625) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/342 "2018-07-30T20:10:30Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > NOT fake news. It was true news that the server claimed it. Your claim is fake news! The original headline was: > [@](#): > > Customer who left “we don’t tip terrorist” message banned from Texas restaurant There was no “allegedly” in there. Incalculable\* harm resulted. \*allegedly ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/343 "2018-07-30T20:22:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I can’t believe someone lives next door to Ving Rhames and doesn’t know he lives next door to Ving Rhames. No kidding, huh? 😕 He should revoke his Los Angeles privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/344 "2018-07-30T20:27:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Your claim is fake news! The original headline was: > > There was no “allegedly” in there. Incalculable\* harm resulted. > > \*allegedly Huh? What? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/345 "2018-07-30T20:33:17Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Huh? What? What? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/346 "2018-07-30T20:33:41Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Triggered much? > > Now think how it would feel to open your door to a cop pointing a gun in your face. Believe it or not, this was in my mind as I was writing. I realize that whatever difficulties I may face with other people due to being an older folk, they do not include this kind of scenario. More about my main point, however, below. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > You mean _grumpy_ older white people. > > **Kayaker** could’t imagine anyone living next door to Ving Rhames and not knowing it was Ving Rhames. My intent was not to indulge in a feeling of superiority; it was to suggest one possible way to reconcile **Kayaker’s** incredulousness with what actually happened. If I’ve done my job, then hopefully \*_Kayaker_ now sees how it might be possible. > > My speculation as to what is plausible should not be taken as any kind of assertion as to the actual circumstances. But if you think I’m wrong about the “older white people” demographic having a disproportionate share of people who are reclusive, out of touch with pop culture, _and_ generally suspicious of black people, feel free to disabuse me of that notion. I’m not going to attempt to do that. It may be true that there is such a disproportion. My point is the same I have made a number of times in different posts: **it is not helpful to make generalizations about groups of people and then apply them to individuals as if we can assume they are true.** If you wanted to posit a case about a neighbor not knowing who Ving Rhames is, the first part (elderly recluse not familiar with pop culture) would have been enough. You went beyond that to talk about a stereotype and then applied it, however speculatively, to that neighbor. This is how bigotry thrives and spreads, by the unthinking and meretricious use of stereotypes. Stereotypes are not helpful, because they can not lead us to any truth about any individual. That is my thesis. I wish more people followed it. There would be a lot less fuel for this thread if they did. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/347 "2018-07-30T20:54:54Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Huh? What? You said my claim is fake news. How is it fake news to report that someone said something? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/348 "2018-07-30T21:07:19Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I’m not going to attempt to do that. It may be true that there is such a disproportion. My point is the same I have made a number of times in different posts: **it is not helpful to make generalizations about groups of people and then apply them to individuals as if we can assume they are true.** > > If you wanted to posit a case about a neighbor not knowing who Ving Rhames is, the first part (elderly recluse not familiar with pop culture) would have been enough. You went beyond that to talk about a stereotype and then applied it, however speculatively, to that neighbor. This is how bigotry thrives and spreads, by the unthinking and meretricious use of stereotypes. Stereotypes are not helpful, because they can not lead us to any truth about any individual. > > That is my thesis. I wish more people followed it. There would be a lot less fuel for this thread if they did. I’d like to avoid going through life being a closed-minded jackass, so I hope you can believe me when I say I’m trying to understand the specific nature of your complaint (and I don’t intend that as any kind of insult toward you or your writing). Are you saying that if I had written just this: > [@Machine Elf](#): > > It’s not hard for me to imagine an elderly recluse (doesn’t know neighbors well at all) who is out of touch with pop culture (and so wouldn’t know Ving Rhames on sight/sound). ISTM that older folks are more likely to be suspicious of black people too. and omitted this: > [@Machine Elf](#): > > Haven’t heard any details about Rhames’ neighbor, but wouldn’t be surprised if they fit that profile. you would have been OK with it? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/349 "2018-07-30T21:12:58Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > You said my claim is fake news. How is it fake news to report that someone said something? As I quoted, the report _didn’t_ just say “someone said something”. There’s no skepticism about the waiter’s claims in the original report. It reads as though the customer’s actions are established fact. Ok, that’s not exactly the same thing as “fake news” that’s just made up. But since this isn’t the first time allegations like this have been shown to be false, a little more caution might have been warranted. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/350 "2018-07-30T21:23:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > As I quoted, the report _didn’t_ just say “someone said something”. There’s no skepticism about the waiter’s claims in the original report. It reads as though the customer’s actions are established fact. Ok, that’s not exactly the same thing as “fake news” that’s just made up. But since this isn’t the first time allegations like this have been shown to be false, a little more caution might have been warranted. Not the first time, but certainly the overwhelmingly majority of such “receipt bigotry” cases have turned out to be true. It not equivalent to the Nigerian scam in its ubiquity, so I don’t know why we should immediately assume we are being duped when one of these stories surfaces. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/351 "2018-07-30T21:24:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > As I quoted, the report _didn’t_ just say “someone said something”. There’s no skepticism about the waiter’s claims in the original report. It reads as though the customer’s actions are established fact. Ok, that’s not exactly the same thing as “fake news” that’s just made up. But since this isn’t the first time allegations like this have been shown to be false, a little more caution might have been warranted. What would you have had someone do? Go to the restaurant and interrogate the waiter? They reported WHAT WAS BEING REPORTED. That is not fake news ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/352 "2018-07-30T21:27:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Just pointing out the fun of living in era in which incalculable harm can be inflicted by an easily riled mob that lacks critical thinking skills and patience. Even cautioning people to wait before overreacting is becoming a crime. Especially if the fabrication is from a member of the oppressed classes. Let us hope no one infringes your constitutional right to hang around the pit accusing others of having potty mouths. The harm to us all if you were banned would be incalculable. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/353 "2018-07-30T21:34:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > What would you have had someone do? Go to the restaurant and interrogate the waiter? They reported WHAT WAS BEING REPORTED. That is not fake news There was no skepticism in the article, they reported the server’s claims as fact. By this reasoning, if a journalist finds someone who tells him that the moon landing was a hoax, the headline “Moon Landing Was A Hoax” is not fake news. Aren’t journalists supposed to either check that claims are true, or make clear that they are unconfirmed claims? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/354 "2018-07-31T02:20:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Let us hope no one infringes your constitutional right to hang around the pit accusing others of having potty mouths. The harm to us all if you were banned would be incalculable. Such irrelevance. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/355 "2018-07-31T02:25:55Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > There was no skepticism in the article, they reported the server’s claims as fact. By this reasoning, if a journalist finds someone who tells him that the moon landing was a hoax, the headline “Moon Landing Was A Hoax” is not fake news. Aren’t journalists supposed to either check that claims are true, or make clear that they are unconfirmed claims? Evs. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/356 "2018-07-31T04:06:05Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I’d like to avoid going through life being a closed-minded jackass, so I hope you can believe me when I say I’m trying to understand the specific nature of your complaint (and I don’t intend that as any kind of insult toward you or your writing). Are you saying that if I had written just this: > > and omitted this: > > you would have been OK with it? Frankly, I believe your question is disingenuous. But if you wanted to be less offensive you could have left out both the generalization and the application to the individual, something that I think you are perfectly capable of figuring out for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/357 "2018-07-31T12:03:03Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > **Kayaker** could’t imagine anyone living next door to Ving Rhames and not knowing it was Ving Rhames. My intent was not to indulge in a feeling of superiority; it was to suggest one possible way to reconcile **Kayaker’s** incredulousness with what actually happened. If I’ve done my job, then hopefully **Kayaker** now sees how it might be possible. > > My speculation as to what is plausible should not be taken as any kind of assertion as to the actual circumstances. But if you think I’m wrong about the “older white people” demographic having a disproportionate share of people who are reclusive, out of touch with pop culture, _and_ generally suspicious of black people, feel free to disabuse me of that notion. \ But, **Ving Rhames**! A friend of mine heard that a house in his neighborhood was being purchased by a guy who is a registered sex offender. The neighbors were all raising a fuss. It turned out the offender guy had only _made an offer_ on the house, and was eventually outbid. I’m an old honky and I approve of this message. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/358 "2018-07-31T12:27:44Z")
I had no idea that Ving Rhames was so famous that he couldn’t help but be instantly recognized by anyone, cop or neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/359 "2018-07-31T13:17:51Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I had no idea that Ving Rhames was so famous that he couldn’t help but be instantly recognized by anyone, cop or neighbor. Well, I don’t know about the cop (he had other problems in how he approached the door IMO), but even in LA where it is probably more common, if I had an A-/B+ list celebrity living next door to me, I’d know who he was. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/360 "2018-07-31T13:37:29Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I had no idea that Ving Rhames was so famous that he couldn’t help but be instantly recognized by anyone, cop or neighbor. I didn’t recognize the name and I wouldn’t have recognized him unless he had a bandaid on the back of his head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=19)