# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/403 "2018-08-02T00:49:06Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > I never thought of that. And it explains the coded language and the dog whistles. For example, it explains why when I insult Grand Dragon Shodan, she reflexively attack my intelligence; or how a a cursory search on your Great Debates forum has [one](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859664), [two](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859661), [two point five](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=775646) (Hint: It’s called the ACA not Obamacare)[three](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859339), and [four](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858490) threads using coded language talking about blacks or people of color. All but one of those threads reinforce negative stereotypes of people of color. > > May I say a few more words and a suggestion (in bold)? > > Kuchiyose no Jutsu > > Take it from here, Robin. > > (emphasis mine) > > Thank you, Robin. > > White folks history of violence, inhumane indifference, and dehumanization of people of color need no introduction and there’s no need to belabor the Trail of Tears, Tuskegee Experiments, Hurricane Katrina, or ascribing the word “thug” and “gangster” to NFL players who engaged in nonviolent, nonvocal protest. We would be here all day and I haven’t even gotten to the [dude that specifically targeted, stalked, attacked, raped, and _ate_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer) [people of color](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/28/12/00CBE7B900000190-0-image-a-22_1430221037830.jpg). The violence whites have inflicted and continue to inflict on people of color is incalculable and their collective indifference that violence is inhumane. \*\* My suggestion and take on it is that you should allow white folks to say racial epithets in the Pit\*\*. This has three benefits. First, white folks will have their outlet for their two minutes of hate against people of color. This two minutes of violence, scapegoating, and hate is essential for their happiness (as history has shown). Second, it serves to let you know who people are (and this knowledge is more important than you realize). Third, it’ll cut down on the coded language in your forums that makes your forum look like some cruel hybrid of _NPR’s Fresh Air_ and _Mississippi Burning_. Is there some context I have missed for why you keep calling Shodan “she”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/404 "2018-08-02T03:33:28Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Is there some context I have missed for why you keep calling Shodan “she”? Maybe Huey, like me, relates the name to a delusional, sociopathic AI with a feminine voice and avatar? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/405 "2018-08-02T04:06:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe Huey, like me, relates the name to a delusional, sociopathic AI with a feminine voice and avatar? Would that be “Shodan” or “Shodana”," as the latter was used by the same poster? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/406 "2018-08-02T04:15:59Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Is there some context I have missed for why you keep calling Shodan “she”? My guess Huey is sexist as well as racist and feels he is insulting a poster he knows is a man by addressing him as a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/407 "2018-08-02T04:25:23Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > “It?” What’s up with the misgendering? Octopodes ain’t human. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/408 "2018-08-02T12:16:58Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Would that be “Shodan” or “Shodana”," as the latter was used by the same poster? Huh, fair point. Maybe it’s just shittiness. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/409 "2018-08-02T12:54:50Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > … that’s the thing with racism. Nobody thinks they have it. Which is why it’s so insidious. Racism doesn’t have to show up in a white hood carrying a burning cross. More often, it is ingrained so deeply within us white people, we don’t even know we’re infected with it. The litmus test? Call a white person “racist.” The angrier that white person gets, the more that shows they’re living with unchecked white privilege, meaning, they are in the highest stages of denial that they might be, even just a teeny tiny bit racist, even subconsciously. That’s [a nice Kafkatrap](https://www.thedailybell.com/all-articles/editorials/wendy-mcelroy-beware-of-kafkatrapping/) you’ve got there. > [@The Daily Bell](#): > > The term “kafkatrapping” describes a logical fallacy that is popular within gender feminism, racial politics and other ideologies of victimhood. It occurs when you are accused of a thought crime such as sexism, racism or homophobia. You respond with an honest denial, which is then used as further confirmation of your guilt. You are now trapped in a circular and unfalsifiable argument; no one who is accused can be innocent because the structure of kafkatrapping precludes that possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/410 "2018-08-02T13:08:37Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That’s [a nice Kafkatrap](https://www.thedailybell.com/all-articles/editorials/wendy-mcelroy-beware-of-kafkatrapping/) you’ve got there. It might sound like one, but consider: is there a **possibility** that a culture rife with bigotry would infect everyone with bigotry, and folks have to be honest about that in order to fight against internalized bigotry? And folks who aren’t honest about it probably aren’t doing the fighting? If there’s a plague going on, who’s likelier to be healthy: the person who admits everyone’s exposed to the virus and who therefore takes precautions, or the person who insists that they’re too enlightened to catch a virus and who regards every suggestion of precautions as a personal attack? The denial isn’t proof that you’re a bigot. It’s proof that you’re not working to counteract bigotry, because you gotta recognize a problem in order to solve it. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/411 "2018-08-02T13:44:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe Huey, like me, relates the name to a delusional, sociopathic AI with a feminine voice and avatar? Alexa? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/412 "2018-08-02T14:13:20Z")
No, Hillary. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/413 "2018-08-02T16:12:41Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > I never thought of that. And it explains the coded language and the dog whistles. For example, it explains why when I insult Grand Dragon Shodan, she reflexively attack my intelligence; or how a a cursory search on your Great Debates forum has [one](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859664), [two](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859661), [two point five](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=775646) (Hint: It’s called the ACA not Obamacare)[three](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859339), and [four](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858490) threads using coded language talking about blacks or people of color. All but one of those threads reinforce negative stereotypes of people of color. > > May I say a few more words and a suggestion (in bold)? > > Kuchiyose no Jutsu > > Take it from here, Robin. > > (emphasis mine) > > > [@Robin DiAngelo](#): > > > > The language of violence that many whites use to describe anti-racist endeavors is not without significance, as it is another example of the way that White Fragility distorts and perverts reality. By employing terms that connote physical abuse, whites tap into the classic discourse of people of color (particularly African Americans) as dangerous and violent. This discourse perverts the actual direction of danger that exists between whites and others. The history of brutal, extensive, institutionalized and ongoing violence perpetrated by whites against people of color—slavery, genocide, lynching, whipping, forced sterilization and medical experimentation to mention a few—becomes profoundly trivialized when whites claim they don’t feel safe or are under attack when in the rare situation of merely talking about race with people of color. The use of this discourse illustrates how fragile and ill-equipped most white people are to confront racial tensions, and their subsequent projection of this tension onto people of color (Morrison, 1992). Goldberg (1993) argues that the questions surrounding racial discourse should not focus so much on how true stereotypes are, but how the truth claims they offer are a part of a larger worldview that authorizes and normalizes forms of domination and control. > > Thank you, Robin. > > White folks history of violence, inhumane indifference, and dehumanization of people of color need no introduction and there’s no need to belabor the Trail of Tears, Tuskegee Experiments, Hurricane Katrina, or ascribing the word “thug” and “gangster” to NFL players who engaged in nonviolent, nonvocal protest. We would be here all day and I haven’t even gotten to the [dude that specifically targeted, stalked, attacked, raped, and _ate_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer) [people of color](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/28/12/00CBE7B900000190-0-image-a-22_1430221037830.jpg). The violence whites have inflicted and continue to inflict on people of color is incalculable and their collective indifference that violence is inhumane. \*\* My suggestion and take on it is that you should allow white folks to say racial epithets in the Pit\*\*. This has three benefits. First, white folks will have their outlet for their two minutes of hate against people of color. This two minutes of violence, scapegoating, and hate is essential for their happiness (as history has shown). Second, it serves to let you know who people are (and this knowledge is more important than you realize). Third, it’ll cut down on the coded language in your forums that makes your forum look like some cruel hybrid of _NPR’s Fresh Air_ and _Mississippi Burning_. > [@raventhief](#): > > Is there some context I have missed for why you keep calling Shodan “she”? Let me get this straight. I write all of that and your single question and comment is why I’ve ostensibly misgendered Grand Dragon Shodan? Want to make sure I understand before I answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/414 "2018-08-02T16:37:23Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Let me get this straight. I write all of that and your single question and comment is why I’ve ostensibly misgendered Grand Dragon Shodan? Want to make sure I understand before I answer the question. Let me get this straight. You reposted all that and never got around to answering the question? ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/415 "2018-08-02T16:37:29Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That’s [a nice Kafkatrap](https://www.thedailybell.com/all-articles/editorials/wendy-mcelroy-beware-of-kafkatrapping/) you’ve got there. That’s some white supremacist nonsense. White folks become stressed and are afraid of being labeled as racist; and when white folks are given feedback on how their behavior(s) could have had a racist impact, they will always - with some exceptions - _deny_, _equivocate_, _deflect blame_. In order for people of color to thrive in white environments, they must quickly learn not to talk about racism, to smile, to make white folks racially comfortable, and to assure white folks that we care more about their explicit intentions (what they say) over the implicit impact of their behavior and decisions (what they do). Kuchiyose no Jutsu. Take it from here, Robin. I’m done. (emphasis mine) > [@Robin DiAngelio](#): > > Racial stress results from an interruption to what is racially familiar. These interruptions can take a variety of forms and come from a range of sources, including: > • Suggesting that a white person’s viewpoint comes from a racialized > frame of reference (challenge to objectivity); > • People of color talking directly about their racial perspectives (challenge > to white racial codes); > • People of color choosing not to protect the racial feelings of white people > in regards to race (challenge to white racial expectations and need/entitlement > to racial comfort); > • People of color not being willing to tell their stories or answer questions > about their racial experiences (challenge to colonialist relations); > • A fellow white not providing agreement with one’s interpretations (challenge > to white solidarity); > **• Receiving feedback that one’s behavior had a racist impact (challenge to > white liberalism);** > • Suggesting that group membership is significant (challenge to individualism); > • An acknowledgment that access is unequal between racial groups (challenge > to meritocracy); > • Being presented with a person of color in a position of leadership (challenge > to white authority); > • Being presented with information about other racial groups through, for > example, movies in which people of color drive the action but are not in > stereotypical roles, or multicultural education (challenge to white centrality). > > In a white dominant environment, each of these challenges becomes exceptional. In turn, whites are often at a loss for how to respond in constructive ways. Whites have not had to build the cognitive or affective skills or develop. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/416 "2018-08-02T16:37:41Z")
Smith College employee called police to report a black woman who “seemed out of place”. She was a student who was eating her lunch. > [@](#): > > The woman, Oumou Kanoute, is an undergraduate student working at the school over the summer, and was on her lunch break when she says the officer arrived and asked what she was doing there > > “All I did was be black,” she said in a Facebook post about the incident. > **[Smith College police called because black student seemed 'out of place'](https://www.masslive.com/news/2018/08/smith_college_student_seeks_to.html?ampredir)** > > Smith College officials said they will investigate the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/417 "2018-08-02T16:38:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let me get this straight. You reposted all that and never got around to answering the question? Oh, yas massah, I’s so sorry I’s not answah yo kwaushan. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/418 "2018-08-02T16:48:26Z")
> [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > Oh, yas massah, I’s so sorry I’s not answah yo kwaushan. :rolleyes: If you want to cosplay the cartoon character you’ve named yourself after, instead of making at least a minuscule effort to communicate with actual human beings, have at it. I will not, however, assume whatever role you’ve assigned me just to make your character look good. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Huey\_Freeman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/huey_freeman/32/251_2.png) [@Huey\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huey_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/419 "2018-08-02T16:51:19Z")
High schoo[l football player](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/football-player-spews-racial-slurs-pledges-support-trump-shocking-video/)spews hate on twitter. Sparks a boycott of the games. Rich, white getaway driver,[Cameron Terrell](https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/07/23/cameron-terrell-acquitted-palos-verdes-estates/), gets away with murder. Get away driver [Nazi flag](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/01/us/nazi-flag-laramie-wyoming-trnd/index.html)raised in public park in Wyoming. [Washington State Utility](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/pse-sends-racial-slur-to-black-woman/803894220) company sends black woman a racial slur as a temporary password. [Gay man](https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Gay-man-believes-he-was-targeted-in-Montrose-13125981.php) beaten in Texas with rocks and belt. Blessed Be the Fruit, I guess. Blessed Be the Fruit. [Black woman](https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2018/07/woman_shot_killed_estranged_hu.html) stands her ground and goes to jail. [Ohio judge](http://https://fox8.com/2018/07/31/cuyahoga-county-judge-orders-mans-mouth-taped-shut-during-sentencing/) orders black man’s mouth to be taped shut. [Black woman](https://wsvn.com/news/local/woman-allegedly-kicked-by-off-duty-officer-while-pregnant-speaks-out/) attacked by off-duty cop, kicked in the stomach and went into premature labor. Honorable Mention: White man, [Cleon Brown](https://wwmt.com/news/local/city-of-hastings-settles-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-against-police-officer), who is 18% black, received a $65,000 settlement after experiencing racism from his fellow white employees. (lol, only because he probably didn’t think racism was real until he told people he was part black) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/420 "2018-08-02T17:02:12Z")
I disagree that hate speech should be used, even in the Pit. I think that this thread could be extraordinarily valuable in highlighting the POC American experience. Link dumps don’t seem to foster much discussion though. YMMV. Oh, and after Obama embraced the moniker Obamacare for the ACA, I have a hard time getting offended at “2.5”. Other coded languages examples are pretty fuckin ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/421 "2018-08-02T17:12:13Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I disagree that hate speech should be used, even in the Pit. I think that this thread could be extraordinarily valuable in highlighting the POC American experience. Link dumps don’t seem to foster much discussion though. YMMV. > Oh, and after Obama embraced the moniker Obamacare for the ACA, I have a hard time getting offended at “2.5”. Other coded languages examples are pretty fuckin Awful.i haven’t clicked on all the links in your posts, though. Something caught my attention, I questioned it. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/422 "2018-08-02T17:18:32Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > … Link dumps don’t seem to foster much discussion though. YMMV… My mileage varies. I’m not sure discussion is the point anyway. It seems to be a good way to highlight, to those of us who don’t experience it directly or personally, the scope of the problem in the microcosm of a post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=22)