# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/743 "2018-08-14T21:39:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Be still, my beating heart! Big strong man argues with someone who made a mistake once in the past, and he keeps bringing it up, over and over again… ooh, I’m getting chills just thinking about it! “Someone who made a mistake”, LOL. How about giving a little more accurate depiction? Try someone who kept throwing OTT trash talk at me about how stupid my “error” was, about how we ought to bet and he’d leave the board if I was proven right. All the while I calmly refused to bet, despite being 100% sure I was right (therefore he can thank me for still being on the board, assuming he was going to hold up to his word) but very patiently continued to explain his error…and then he finally got it and admitted “arrogant, verbose and wrong is a bad combination”. He seemed chastened, so I did not gloat at the time and even extended an olive branch. But he has gone back to his trash-talking ways, so at this point fuck it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/744 "2018-08-14T21:42:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > “Someone who made a mistake”, LOL. How about giving a little more accurate depiction? Try someone who kept throwing OTT trash talk at me about how stupid my “error” was, about how we ought to bet and he’d leave the board if I was proven right. All the while I calmly refused to bet, despite being 100% sure I was right (therefore he can thank me for still being on the board, assuming he was going to hold up to his word) but very patiently continued to explain his error…and then he finally got it and admitted “arrogant, verbose and wrong is a bad combination”. He seemed chastened, so I did not gloat at the time and even extended an olive branch. But he has gone back to his trash-talking ways, so at this point fuck it. Oh no, he’s critical of you, after making a sincere and self-deprecating admission of error on a past disagreement? How horrible for you! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/745 "2018-08-14T21:46:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The statistics absolutely do show this as reasonable. I’ve cited it multiple times – polling shows that 50% of black people report that _they personally_ have experienced mistreatment by police, as compared to 3% of white people. Unless you think that black people are more likely to lie or be inaccurate about mistreatment (and historically, black people as a group have literally _always been correct_ about their mistreatment), this shows that it’s entirely reasonable for many decent black people to see police as erratic at best, and dangerous foes at worst. I spearheaded a large protest march and rally in response to police badly beating an innocent black man (innocent even by the police’s own account), so I don’t need convincing on that point. And the racial disparitites in drug sentencing were obscene—even Newt Gingrich now admits this. But unless BLM is really referring to “quality of life” rather than _loss_ of life, their main point is disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/746 "2018-08-14T21:47:27Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I spearheaded a large protest march and rally in response to police badly beating an innocent black man (innocent even by the police’s own account), so I don’t need convincing on that point. And the racial disparitites in drug sentencing were obscene—even Newt Gingrich now admits this. But unless BLM is really referring to “quality of life” rather than _loss_ of life, their main point is disingenuous. BLM is interested in the devaluation and mistreatment of black lives by law enforcement, and society in general. That covers far, far more than just killings and shootings. If you weren’t aware of this, then you’ve been remarkably ignorant about the movement. The first two sentences of Wikipedia’s BLM entry: “Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism toward black people. BLM regularly holds protests speaking out against police killings of black people, and broader issues such as racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/747 "2018-08-14T21:59:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > “Someone who made a mistake”, LOL. How about giving a little more accurate depiction? Try someone who kept throwing OTT trash talk at me about how stupid my “error” was, about how we ought to bet and he’d leave the board if I was proven right. All the while I calmly refused to bet, despite being 100% sure I was right (therefore he can thank me for still being on the board, assuming he was going to hold up to his word) but very patiently continued to explain his error…and then he finally got it and admitted “arrogant, verbose and wrong is a bad combination”. He seemed chastened, so I did not gloat at the time and even extended an olive branch. But he has gone back to his trash-talking ways, so at this point fuck it. You are aware that you’ve made dozens more mistakes in our conversations than I have, you’ve just lacked the intellectual integrity to admit it? Or maybe you just lack the intellectual capacity to realize you were wrong? Yeah, I made a mistake and admitted it. You’ve made many more mistakes and haven’t admitted any of them, because your sense of self is so fragile you can’t admit error. By the way—completely serious–your inability to admit error is common among children who are told they’re smart so often that it becomes part of their sense of self. Then when they try something difficult, and fail, they can’t handle it, because it would mean they’re not actually that smart. So they stop trying. They’re called underachievers or procrastinators, but in reality they were told they were smarter than they actually are, and they can’t handle it. I think that’s you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/748 "2018-08-14T22:02:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > You are aware that you’ve made dozens more mistakes in our conversations than I have, you’ve just lacked the intellectual integrity to admit it? Or maybe you just lack the intellectual capacity to realize you were wrong? > > Yeah, I made a mistake and admitted it. You’ve made many more mistakes and haven’t admitted any of them, because your sense of self is so fragile you can’t admit error. > > By the way—completely serious–your inability to admit error is common among children who are told they’re smart so often that it becomes part of their sense of self. Then when they try something difficult, and fail, they can’t handle it, because it would mean they’re not actually that smart. So they stop trying. They’re called underachievers or procrastinators, but in reality they were told they were smarter than they actually are, and they can’t handle it. I think that’s you. He just made a very obvious mistake about Black Lives Matter. One that I figured that everyone even remotely familiar with progressive politics would know. Should we remind him of it, post after post after post? …naah. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/749 "2018-08-14T22:05:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The fact is that a far greater percentage of blacks than whites are murderers. And if a randomly selected black person and a randomly selected white person are approaching each other in a dark alley, the white person has more than ten times the reason to fear losing their life as a result of the encounter. While I am sure that that statistic is very scary, and a reason to fear all black people, I do wonder exactly how skewed that statistic is by [policies like this one.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article213647764.html) In the end, if a white person is found dead, it is ten times as likely that a black person will be charged with the crime, but it is harder to tell if that has anything to do with whether they committed it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/750 "2018-08-14T22:07:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He just made a very obvious mistake about Black Lives Matter. One that I figured that everyone even remotely familiar with progressive politics would know. Should we remind him of it, post after post after post? I wouldn’t call it an error, I’d call it a deliberate lie. I think he’s a pretty consistent liar, and all his lies are in the same direction… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/751 "2018-08-14T22:09:44Z")
Anyone who trash talks the way you do (something I have more decency, class, and composure to ever engage in) has zero credibility to lecture me or anyone else about anything. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/752 "2018-08-14T22:11:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Anyone who trash talks the way you do (something I have more decency, class, and composure to ever engage in) has zero credibility to lecture me or anyone else about anything. Okay, let’s see you gracefully acknowledge your error about BLM. Feel free to explain how you were that ignorant of the mission of the organization. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/753 "2018-08-14T22:16:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In the end, if a white person is found dead, it is ten times as likely that a black person will be charged with the crime, but it is harder to tell if that has anything to do with whether they committed it. As our illustrious orange president has amply demonstrated, if you declare any data you don’t like to be “fake news” or the product of conspiracy, you can make any assertion you like and it is automatically unfalsifiable. Neat trick! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/754 "2018-08-14T22:20:56Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Anyone who trash talks the way you do (something I have more decency, class, and composure to ever engage in) has zero credibility to lecture me or anyone else about anything. But I basically got your history spot-on, right? A little boy, told by well-meaning parents how smart he was, but fails every time he tries something that a child as smart as he’s supposed to be would succeed at? So he stops trying. You’re not even an interesting story of failure. There’s millions of children who are fucked up the same way you are (though most of them probably grow out of it–how fucking old are you, anyway?). People like you are the reason parents are told not to praise their children by calling them smart. Anyway, you were demonstrating your decency, class, and composure by insulting an entire race of people, most of whom are better than you. Don’t let me interrupt you. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/755 "2018-08-14T22:21:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, let’s see you gracefully acknowledge your error about BLM. Feel free to explain how you were that ignorant of the mission of the organization. I have never seen any BLM representative say in an interview, or at a protest, anything about anything other than white police officers who killed black people. But I acknowledge your cite that their Wikipedia page describes them as having a broader mission. If you have a cite for a high profile BLM interview or protest that was not predominantly about blacks’ loss of life at white hands, I will be more impressed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/756 "2018-08-14T22:23:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have never seen any BLM representative say in an interview, or at a protest, anything about anything other than white police officers who killed black people. But I acknowledge your cite that their Wikipedia page describes them as having a broader mission. If you have a cite for a high profile BLM interview or protest that was not predominantly about blacks’ loss of life at white hands, I will be more impressed. Jesus. It took me literally 30 seconds. I only had to google “Deray McKesson interview”, and got this: [https://www.refinery29.com/2016/02/103912/black-lives-matter-interview-activist-deray-mckesson](https://www.refinery29.com/2016/02/103912/black-lives-matter-interview-activist-deray-mckesson) You’re either being incredibly lazy or your vaunted intelligence is far, far lesser than you’ve been crowing. Or you’re bullshitting me. This is basic, basic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/757 "2018-08-14T22:25:11Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > As our illustrious orange president has amply demonstrated, if you declare any data you don’t like to be “fake news” or the product of conspiracy, you can make any assertion you like and it is automatically unfalsifiable. Neat trick! Did you not read the article where the chief of police was ordering his employees to pin unsolved crimes on black people? Do you really think that that is the first time that ever happened? It is not that I like or do not like the data, it is that some of those who are involved in creating that data have shown that some of the data is in fact, falsified. How falsified it is, it is hard to say. But we know of at least one town in Florida where the statistical rate of black crime is higher than the actual rate of black crime, due to racist police enforcement. Your buddy trump makes such claims with no evidence because he doesn’t like the news. I point out evidence to show that the statistics may not be accurate, but you like those statistics so much, as it justifies your fear of black people, that you call the evidence fake news. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/758 "2018-08-14T22:26:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I have never seen any BLM representative say in an interview, or at a protest, anything about anything other than white police officers who killed black people. You don’t have time to educate yourself in any way other than listening to podcasts, but you have the time to watch (I assume “lots of”, given how confident you are in your assertions) BLM interviews and protests? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/759 "2018-08-14T22:30:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Anyway, you were demonstrating your decency, class, and composure by insulting an entire race of people, most of whom are better than you. Don’t let me interrupt you. This is why I said you were too entertaining for m to want to let you self-banish from the board so easily. That was a sick burn, and much classier than your usual bile—so, kudos for that. 😃 You’re wrong about my parents though. As social scientists, they were so deep into the “Blank Slate” paradigm, they treated IQ as an invalid yardstick and wouldn’t let me skip grades even when teachers urged it. (I was glad later when I could actually have a car for most of high school.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/760 "2018-08-14T22:37:56Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This is why I said you were too entertaining for m to want to let you self-banish from the board so easily. That was a sick burn, and much classier than your usual bile—so, kudos for that. 😃 > > You’re wrong about my parents though. As social scientists, they were so deep into the “Blank Slate” paradigm, they treated IQ as an invalid yardstick and wouldn’t let me skip grades even when teachers urged it. (I was glad later when I could actually have a car for most of high school.) Jesus again. You’ve got a complex or something. Well-adjusted smart people don’t constantly crow about how smart they are. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/761 "2018-08-14T22:39:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Jesus. It took me literally 30 seconds. I only had to google “Deray McKesson interview”, and got this: [https://www.refinery29.com/2016/02/103912/black-lives-matter-interview-activist-deray-mckesson](https://www.refinery29.com/2016/02/103912/black-lives-matter-interview-activist-deray-mckesson) > > You’re either being incredibly lazy or your vaunted intelligence is far, far lesser than you’ve been crowing. Or you’re bullshitting me. This is basic, basic stuff. Wait, what? I was honestly ready to be convinced, but…huh? There’s a lot of vague verbiage that could reference any cause. And he talked about his activism before BLM. But where’s the part that clearly lays out a broader BLM agenda? Can you quote it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/762 "2018-08-14T22:42:42Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Wait, what? I was honestly ready to be convinced, but…huh? There’s a lot of vague verbiage that could reference any cause. And he talked about his activism before BLM. But where’s the part that clearly lays out a broader BLM agenda? Can you quote it? Oh fuck you with your very obvious goalpost moving (“clearly lays out a broader BLM agenda”? What the fuck?). You asked this: “If you have a cite for a high profile BLM interview or protest that was not predominantly about blacks’ loss of life at white hands, I will be more impressed.” That’s exactly what I gave you. Deray Mckesson is about as high profile a BLM activist as it gets, and that interview covered a ton of aspects of systemic and law enforcement bias, beyond just “blacks’ loss of life at white hands” (at least, as much as a short interview possibly could). When you’re shifting goalposts this far, and being this lazy, I’m not inclined to do your work for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=39)