# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/983 "2018-09-16T06:54:44Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > we all have things we cannot do, and places we cannot go, and if you life is more difficult than mine it’s because we’ve built our society to make it so; not because of your “disability.” I’m also disabled, in case you don’t know. Of course there are actions that people in society take that make it harder to be a disabled person, but that is entirely separate from the physical issue of being disabled. One set of problems is social, and the other is very much real world and physical. Telling **Ambi** , who deals with paralysis, or me, who deals with neurological issues, that the reason our lives are more difficult than yours is because society is not accommodating enough is bizarre. My actual, physical disability is the reason my life is harder. > [@](#): > > the “deaf community” (whatever that is) doesn’t give a fuck about cochlear implants or who chooses to use them or not. They do have a problem with calling deafness a disability and is something that needs to be fixed. That hearing is better than not, and anyone who doesnt want to hear is some sort of mental defective; [why wouldn’t you want to hear? are you nuts? your life would be so much easier.](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/08/understanding-deafness-not-everyone-wants-to-be-fixed/278527/) Science is a wonderful thing, and every day there are new discoveries in how our bodies work and in technologies to change from one state to another and anyone should be free to take advantage of those discoveries, or not, with out being judged. Hearing is not better than deafness, seeing is not better than blindness, and walking is not better than rolling. People can make decisions for themselves about what treatments they choose to pursue, but it’s ridiculous to state that being deaf, blind, or paralyzed is not a disability. I have never heard of anyone maiming themselves so they can get rad wheels (nor doing it to their kids). No one normally blinds their children because cool science is coming. There are medical reasons, already explained, why deafness is a tricky problem to solve currently. There may be new discoveries every day, but there is no magic solution for most disabilities. I made a further point earlier that I will repeat. I think that the notion of disability, as in extra difficulty to accomplish life, and the notion of disability, as in diminished personhood are intertwined, and many people have a gut level reaction to that. Being disabled does not equate to being worth less as a person. Disabled people are people, just like everyone else. Some are good, some are bad, some are smart, some are not as smart, some are funny, and so on. They are people. They just have an extra obstacle to making their way in the world. Disability is the word we use for that right now. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/984 "2018-09-16T07:11:24Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > if you life is more difficult than mine it’s because we’ve built our society to make it so; not because of your “disability.” This is, without doubt, one of the stupidest things I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/985 "2018-09-16T07:51:03Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Since this thread is called _living while black_, let’s turn it around. A black person in America today: there are places they cannot go and things that they cannot do. Would you call being black a disability? Would you encourage black people to change their color if there was some sort of “magical cure”? I’m pretty sure your answer would be “no” There is nothing wrong with being black, if their life is harder than mine it’s because we’ve built barriers into our society, and the best way to remedy that is to tear down those barriers, not ask them to change who they are. > > mc Let’s turn it around again: racism is one of the major reasons black society is the way it is. Ending racism would change black society and therefore, ending racism is wrong. Or are you saying that there’s something wrong with black society? I’m just following your logic. Being black isn’t a disability. Suffering from racism because you’re black, is. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/986 "2018-09-16T09:01:54Z")
Dnftft. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/987 "2018-09-16T12:01:45Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Look man, there is objective fact to disability. I am physically paralyzed from the waist down. There are certain thing things, certain activities, I simply cannot perform. There are certain places I simply cannot go. And there are othere things and activities I _can_ do but in a more time-consuming/accomodated way. It’s is to not recognize reality to say that my physical condition does not put limits on what I can do in/with my life and that my life is not made more difficult as well. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > we all have things we cannot do, and places we cannot go, and if you life is more difficult than mine it’s because we’ve built our society to make it so; not because of your “disability.” You’re fucking kidding me, right?? If there were no ‘society,’ if we all lived in a Hobbesian state of nature, anyone paralyzed from the waist down would basically be dead meat. Ditto blind and deaf people. It’s not like the abled and the disabled were equal in a state of nature, until society came along and made things worse for the disabled. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/988 "2018-09-16T12:34:14Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > This is, without doubt, one of the stupidest things I have ever read. You need to get out more. 🙂 **mikecurtis** has a point; our infrastructure should be usable by people of different abilities, to the extent possible. Our walk signals should have both lights and sounds, buildings should have ramps and sidewalks curb cuts, and door should have handles instead of knobs. However, no, our traffic lights do not need sound, because blind people cannot drive cars yet, because they cannot see, and no amount of changing society is going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/989 "2018-09-16T13:51:05Z")
> [@j666](#): > > You need to get out more. 🙂 Or read basically anything the president says. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/990 "2018-09-16T16:43:10Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > the “deaf community” (whatever that is) doesn’t give a fuck about cochlear implants or who chooses to use them or not. On the contrary. They’re extremely anti-implant. Parents who choose one for their child are seen as abusers. But really, I did not mean to start a hijack. So that’s for a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/991 "2018-09-16T17:05:05Z")
The hijack was started a few pages ago by **Huey** , I’m told. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/992 "2018-09-16T18:03:03Z")
> [@j666](#): > > **mikecurtis** has a point; our infrastructure should be usable by people of different abilities, to the extent possible. He is entirely pointless. He just told a person who is physically paralyzed from the waist down that ‘if you life is more difficult than mine it’s because we’ve built our society to make it so; not because of your “disability.”’ The level of condescension there is immeasurable, and the sheer stupidity stunning. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/993 "2018-09-16T20:23:00Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > He is entirely pointless. He just told a person who is physically paralyzed from the waist down that ‘if you life is more difficult than mine it’s because we’ve built our society to make it so; not because of your “disability.”’ The level of condescension there is immeasurable, and the sheer stupidity stunning. Society, and its infrastructure, should allow all members to participate and contribute, to the degree desired and possible. I don’t think any decent person could disagree with that. Braille & floor announcements in elevators. Wider door openings > [@Guinastasia](#): > > On the contrary. They’re extremely anti-implant. Parents who choose one for their child are seen as abusers. > > But really, I did not mean to start a hijack. So that’s for a different thread. Yes, let’s get back to autism. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/994 "2018-09-16T20:36:57Z")
I’m condescending? Because I believe that a person is not dis-abled because their legs dont work, or they are deaf or they are blind etc? Because I believe that they are quite capable of doing **EVERYTHING** that anyone else can? That I don’t pity them or believe that they are somehow incomplete because they are not they same as me? That I believe that society has all but ignored them when it comes to the infrastructure that we all rely on daily? Because I respect their choice to change their bodies **or not** and would never impose my own judgement on them or their families for whatever they decide to do? That I would never make the statement that no parent “with any sense of human decency” would ever choose to not “cure” their child of a disability? That’s the opposite of condescension you self righteous judgemental holier-than-thou ignorant piece of trash. Pick up a dictionary you illiterate rube and then go back to that sanctimonious circle jerk in IMHO where you can all coo at each other about how you would never let those poor unfortunate invalids suffer needlessly if only life were like a fantasy paperback. And let me repeat: the deaf activist crowd doesnt give a fuck about cochlear implants or any other hearing device. They consider it child abuse because it’s subjecting a child to a needless medical procedure to “cure a disability” for a condition that they neither believe is a disability or that needs to be cured. And for making children everywhere feel incomplete because they are deaf. That’s why they’re against it. If an adult chooses to avail themselves of the technology for whatever reason, that’s their prerogative. And all this talk about disability isn’t really a hijack so much as it is a diversion, really. For centuries the “experts” have used arguments based on spurious evidence that the “negro race” was inferior to whites. That they were incomplete, incapable of succeeding in society, in need of the constant patronage of the noble withes. **Huey** just turned that tactic on it’s ear. Injecting the notion that the white race was somehow degenerating as shown by the correlation to autism. And that this inferiority justifies not taking their arguments seriously. “what gives you the right to rule the world when you cant even prevent your own people from becoming drooling invalids?” ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/995 "2018-09-16T21:04:27Z")
Please folks, dnftt. There is absolutely nothing to be gained. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/996 "2018-09-16T23:31:21Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Please folks, dnftt. There is absolutely nothing to be gained. Is it condescending to accede to your request? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/997 "2018-09-16T23:42:40Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Is it condescending to accede to your request? > > 🙂 Ha! Well if you want to “argue” with someone who seems to be saying that a blind man can drive on the interstate just like everyone else, go right ahead. I just don’t imagine it being a constructive use of your time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/998 "2018-09-17T00:10:06Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Ha! Well if you want to “argue” with someone who seems to be saying that a blind man can drive on the interstate just like everyone else, go right ahead. I just don’t imagine it being a constructive use of your time. 🙂 Not to acknowledge the troll, but to be fair, I’ve seen people driving on these interstates, and a blind person could do just as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/999 "2018-09-17T00:26:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not to acknowledge the troll, but to be fair, I’ve seen people driving on these interstates, and a blind person could do just as well. Not a truly blind person. Perhaps someone with some degree of vision impairment but someone who is profoundly blind, c’mon. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1000 "2018-09-17T05:12:23Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Society, and its infrastructure, should allow all members to participate and contribute, to the degree desired and possible. I don’t think any decent person could disagree with that. Braille & floor announcements in elevators. Wider door openings. The prick did not say “allow all members to participate”. Please read his statement and then consider what it actually means. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1001 "2018-09-17T05:15:30Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > I’m condescending? > Because I believe that a person is not dis-abled because their legs dont work, or they are deaf or they are blind etc? No. You’re condescending because you’ve told Ambivalid he isn’t really disabled. You’re fucking stupid because you believe that a person who is blind, deaf or crippled does not have a disability. Try to keep up, eh. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1002 "2018-09-17T05:30:42Z")
**_Underlined italics_ below are mine.** > [@mikecurtis](#): > > I’m condescending? > Because I believe that a person is not dis-abled because their legs dont work, or they are deaf or they are blind etc? Because I believe that they are quite capable of doing **EVERYTHING** that anyone else can? That I don’t pity them or believe that they are somehow incomplete because they are not they same as me? That I believe that society has all but ignored them when it comes to the infrastructure that we all rely on daily? _Because I respect their choice to change their bodies **or not** _ and would never impose my own judgement on them or their families for whatever they decide to do? That I would never make the statement that no parent “with any sense of human decency” would ever choose to not “cure” their child of a disability? _Words fail me._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=51)