# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1083 "2018-09-18T17:47:05Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Now see, this is an seemingly intelligent (if highly debatable) contribution that I see as merely glib. Or would you prefer I interpret it as ignorant? Collective guilt being the necessary precursor for collective responsibility which is the impetus for repairing social inequities, is far from hypocritical. It is painted as hypocritical only by those who have an interest in maintaining status quo. Would you care to elaborate on why you believe in such hypocrisy? Are you of the belief that such “collective reasoning” is actually a tool of a cynical government for social control? And that government itself is the biggest perpetrator of actions that it then advocates collective guilt for? > > But how else do you connect the individual to the societal injustices to which they have no direct experience? And without that connection somehow being forged, how do you envision societies progressing, advancing and bettering the lives of all it’s people? People must feel as though they are a part of a bigger whole. If you feel like a part of something bigger, you in turn feel a share of emotional turmoil for the collective failures of that larger whole. And that emotional turmoil, guilt, motivates the individual to act in concert with other individuals to create a much larger body that can ultimately work to repair those collective failures. > > It’s one problem I see with modern day America: there is so much disconnect and isolation between different sub-cultures and individuals, there is little compelling us to forge a connection to the greater human network of which we are a part. Our political reality only serves to exacerbate this disconnect and division. We need to nurture collective responsibility now more than ever. Not disparage it. Yeah, I made the assumption that when I wrote “collective” that in the context of this thread it would have been interpreted as “collective based on racial categorization.” Of course, society as a whole needs to work on solving problems. I’d welcome that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1084 "2018-09-18T17:48:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Being a Nazi at one point in time or a drug dealer or something shouldn’t exclude one from employment. That’s empathy, son. > > You are doing a good job finding anecdotes. But I could go to WorldStar and find all sorts of anecdotes as well. C’mon Huey you got to engage with at least a tiny bit of honesty otherwise you look like a caricature. For a job that requires the trust of a potentially diverse community, like police officer, prior membership in a hate group should be disqualifying unless the individual has shown a very long track record of public contrition and demonstration that they’ve reversed that ideology. Otherwise, how is, say, a black or Jewish member of that community ever going to feel safe interacting with such an officer? Perception matters for that kind of job. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1085 "2018-09-18T17:55:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I suspect just about everyone who lives in our society is affected by that culture, I just wouldn’t extrapolate that to being able to make conclusions about traits that “most” men find unattractive. Well I apologize for going out-of-bounds in the conclusions I’ve drawn. I also must note that you failed to answer the question I directly posed to you. I consider your response a dodge, a non-answer. But it’s not worth the back and forth, i feel like we agree on enough points of substance. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1086 "2018-09-18T18:06:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Up next, no doubt - a desperate troll through the more obscure dictionary definitions of \*hegemon \*in a pathetic attempt to pretend you knew what you were talking about. Or we could just go with the single definition given by my favorite dictionary, American Heritage: > **[The American Heritage Dictionary entry: Hegemony](https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hegemony&submit.x=0&submit.y=0)** > > The American Heritage Dictionary entry: Hegemony > [@](#): > > The predominance of one state or social group over others. Maybe you missed the “or social group”. 😉 Or perhaps you’re a traditionalist who prefers Merriam-Webster. They feature two definitions: > **[Definition of HEGEMONY](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hegemony)** > > preponderant influence or authority over others : domination; the social, cultural, ideological, or economic influence exerted by a dominant group… See the full definition > [@](#): > > 1 preponderant influence or authority over others : DOMINATION > > 2 the social, cultural, ideological, or economic influence exerted by a dominant group But wait: they don’t mention states or nations at all, in either definition. Huh. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1087 "2018-09-18T18:11:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For a job that requires the trust of a potentially diverse community, like police officer, prior membership in a hate group should be disqualifying unless the individual has shown a very long track record of public contrition and demonstration that they’ve reversed that ideology. Otherwise, how is, say, a black or Jewish member of that community ever going to feel safe interacting with such an officer? Perception matters for that kind of job. Agree 100%. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1088 "2018-09-18T18:55:45Z")
How would they know, unless he had a swastika tattooed on his forehead or something? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1089 "2018-09-18T18:56:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Or we could just go Or we could not not. Talk about predictable. And pathetic. Crowing over entirely the wrong gotchya. I didn’t say it _had to_ be a state to be a hegemony. But if it _is_ a state - like your \*own stupid examples \*of India and Pakistan and Hitlerstan - then to be a hegemon, it has to exercise control _over like but lesser polities_. A state oppressing the people in itself is just an oppressive state, it’s not a hegemon. This is why you shouldn’t get political terms of art from dictionaries, you stupid boy. Gods, you are \*so \*completely unaware of how deficient you are, **SlackInBrain**. Still Dunning-Krugering away. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1090 "2018-09-18T18:57:09Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > **Big T** there is a difference between a functioning adult saying that they accept who they are and do not want to change it, and a parent making a decision about a cure for a child. Accepting my child is not neurotypical, and loving my child for who is now, does not mean that I am abrogated from my responsibility to enable him to live his best life as an independent adult. > > And that gets into what **SlackerInc** said: > > Talking about autism as though it is a gift is very analogous to talking about deafness as a gift in my opinion. Do some people feel that way? Obviously they do. In our hypothetical world (AGAIN), SlackerInc is denying his child medical care and I think he’s an asshole. > > Try this one: a child has Down’s Syndrome - do you “magically” cure it? It won’t be the same. Not all children with Down’s Syndromelly disabled. Not all children with Down’s Syndrome want the same things. Some children with Down’s Syndrome grow up to adults who accept that Down’s Syndrome is part of who they are, who believe it’s important, that it offers them abilities and insights that neuro-typical people don’t have. You’re the parent. Your infant, 3 y.o., 8 y.o. has just been diagnosed with Down Syndrome (here in hypothetical land) - do you magically cure it? Why or why not? I am doing my very best to avoid answering the question, because I don’t have such a kid, and I have not made up my mind on the subject. I have, at different times, convinced myself both ways. It’s a really, really hard question, and one I hope I never have to deal with. What I am doing is saying that there is no consensus on this issue, and **SlackerInc** ’s opinion agrees with a lot of the organizations for autistic people out there, including some actually run by autistic people. What’s more, I’ve encountered plenty of autistic people who flat out said that they hate that people, including their parents, were always trying to cure them, and consider it a form of good intentioned bigotry. As such, even though I think **SlackerInc** is a shitty person in many other ways, I feel I need to defend his point of view on this particular subject. I don’t defend him because of him, but because of the idea. It’s not like he attacked you for how you choose to raise your children. Then I would get your outrage. Hell, I’d join in. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1091 "2018-09-18T18:58:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah, I made the assumption that when I wrote “collective” that in the context of this thread it would have been interpreted as “collective based on racial categorization.” > > Of course, society as a whole needs to work on solving problems. I’d welcome that. But it isn’t just racial categorization. While that may be the most glaring, visible example (and therefore the best example to illustrate the topic), it is by no means the beginning and end for the necessity of collective responsibility. It also may be the most divisive and problematic example of where collective guilt is splintered and results in a stalling of unity of collective responsibility which is needed for collective action (geez im sick of typing that word!). All the more reason to force oneself to face it and acknowledge it. But we need some degree of collective guilt leading to collective responsibility on a host of issues, some more viscerally felt than others. Certainly most of the -isms can ultimately only be rectified though action achieved through a unified sense of collective responsibility. Sexism can not be legislated to the dustbins of history. It must be exorcised to those dustbins, societally, through the collective force of individuals uniting to do what is “right” for others, rather than simply “good” for themselves. And that takes introspection and willingness to learn, which can be quite uncomfortable at times. For coming to terms with your unwitting complicity in a system that has been facilitating the inequities that your fellow neighbor, or classmate, or employee, or passing stranger on the street or even a completely unknown entity clear across the country has been living with and amidst for so long, can understandably engender feelings of defensive hostility. This is, I believe a somewhat human nature element to the process. An element that must be overcome. Because being unwittingly complicit to a system of, say, institutional racism does not mean ypu yourself are a racist. It simply means that you have benefited from and by the act of never having reason to think outside your comfort zone, aided in the perpetuation of that system. What kind of society do you want to live in? Sure, you may be at or near the top of the priveleged pecking order now (general “you”) but societies change, cultures shift. What if one day you find yourself without a voice in the world you used to exist comfortably in? What if you felt the unbridled pain and injustice that comes with having your legitimate needs and issues marginalized by a seemingly uncaring dominant society that regarded you as invisible at best and a product of your own failures at worst? One that needed to be cordoned off from polite society? Empathy is bred through shared adversity. Those with no concept of adversity are those who have never needed to forge connections with their fellow man. These constitute the elements of our society that make striving for social change such a heartwrenching and at the same time heartwarming process. Because they represent just as integral an aspect of human nature as do those of us well steeped in adversity. Tl;dr. Social responsibility (which is necessarily preceded by at least some level of social guilt) is needed for practically all examples of needed society-wide change. Its not by any means limited to racial injustices and inequities. Those are just the most pressing and viscerally felt. A prerequisite for inclusion and meaningful participation in such collective action is _at least_ a second-hand internalized understanding of empathy, imho. This is where I believe the “line in the sand” is drawn between those who resist and attack notions of collective guilt/responsibility and those who ultimately realize it’s about everyone together and no one individually. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1092 "2018-09-18T18:58:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > It’s the first time I hear of it with that meaning, as well. To me the rule of three is a mathematical thing (specifically, the mechanism used to solve a proportionality problem), although that appears to be a name that’s not used in every country (I’ve had coworkers from multiple countries who knew it by that name in the local language, others who didn’t and others who didn’t even know it was a thing). The mathematical concept, or the religious tenet? > [@Ambivalid](#): > > Likewise, it will not surprise you that not only did I not say all men share the sexual proclivities I mentioned, not even all heterosexual men, I actually acknowledged this fact as well. I am a bit saddened by your lack of good faith summation of my post but i am glad that you and Huey have found (even more) common ground to build upon. I did not say you said that, oh Sir Good Faith. > [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I think folks around here can be forgiven for unfamiliarity with a concept from an absurd, transparently fabricated occult religion that appeals mostly to teenagers from the nineties. I will happily go back to “Payback’s a bitch”. But I’m not going to join you in slagging off a religion that’s done less harm than any other I know of, and it’s adherents. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1093 "2018-09-18T18:59:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Care to get into a tedious “what exactly is _modern_” discussion, instead? Not particularly. I was responding to the ignorance of the original post to which I was replying, which made explicit reference to antiquity by use of the phrase “over the millennia”: > [@SlackerInc](#): > > White hegemons have engaged in atrocious crimes against humanity—as have nonwhite hegemons over the millennia. But if there are nonwhite hegemons who have gone as far as whites in seeking social justice and progressive reform, I can’t think of any—and if Huey or anyone wants to argue otherwise, I’m gonna need a cite. :dubious: I apologize for drawing you in to this as well, it was not my intention. Still, at least you replied, unlike **SlackerInc**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1094 "2018-09-18T18:59:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How would they know, unless he had a swastika tattooed on his forehead or something? > > Regards, > Shodan Because someone might find out, inform the local media, and it ends up as a news story (quite reasonably - it would be just as concerning as hiring a former member of Al Qaeda as a cop) with his face on it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1095 "2018-09-18T19:00:48Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Well I apologize for going out-of-bounds in the conclusions I’ve drawn. I also must note that you failed to answer the question I directly posed to you. I consider your response a dodge, a non-answer. But it’s not worth the back and forth, i feel like we agree on enough points of substance. He did answer. He said “no.” He doesn’t agree with your generalization. He doesn’t think there is enough data to lead to your conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1096 "2018-09-18T19:05:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Being a Nazi at one point in time or a drug dealer or something shouldn’t exclude one from employment. That’s empathy, son. What do you mean? Such criminals already _can_ find legitimate employment. You familiar with **White Boy Rick**? The real life story and/or the movie? Detroit PD, a _true_ equal opportunity employer! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1097 "2018-09-18T19:12:52Z")
> [@j666](#): > > The appropriate response to this is not #notallwhitepeople. The appropriate response is “holy fuck, how does this kind of thing still happen?” or “You know Slate is pretty slanted - do you have another cite?”. You don’t immediately post about how Huey is victimizing all white people, _ **proving his point.** _ > > Every time Huey makes some insulting broad generalization about white people, the next three posts prove him right. The problem is that, when you quoted Huey’s post, you left off the important portion. You just quoted > [@](#): > > Today we learned that the Oklahoma Police Department hired a Nazi - Bart Alsbrook - who was fired from his previous job because of his racism. The police chief, Christopher Watson, hired his racist ass anyway. I’ll repeat that. The police chief knew of Alsbrook’s past and hired him anyway. “In the two years that I have known him, he has done nothing but contribute,” said Watson. “Everyone has a past, some of which they may not be proud of, of which he is not. He wishes he never had those connections.” But you left out the rest of his post (with my highlighting): > [@Huey\_Freeman](#): > > This is the epitome of intention over impact and showcases, yet again, how **white folks are bereft of cognitive empathy**. This police chief is clueless to how this hiring decision affect the people of color who work in that department and the people of color who live in that community.\*\* White people have no empathy for anyone except for people who look like them or their friends or family.\*\* It reminds me of that Senator from Ohio (I think it was Ohio) who was anti-gay but after his son came out to him, he decided to hold a press conference and proceeded to out his son before telling the world that he has turned a new leaf and is now a defender of of gay rights. **This is typical white behavior.** Only showing compassion and empathy when it’s at your doorstep. You shouldn’t have to see someone in pain before you can empathize with them. I don’t know any transgender people or have any gay friends personally but I show compassion toward them. So the response is not to the example of one bad egg. It is to **Huey Freedman** choosing, once again, to attack all white people. The fact that some of us choose to call him on his racism (including you) does not prove him right about white people. If someone brought up an example of a single racist black person and said that was how all black people were, and we told them that not all black people were like that, then we wouldn’t be confirming what they said about black people, either. **Huey** may have other things of value to say, but he keeps on throwing in these racist comments. And, as long as he does, he’s gonna get pushback. In fact, after seeing that he’s still not given this racist bullshit up, I’m putting him on ignore. I wanted to be okay with it, since this thread is a good thing. But I can’t keep on listening to a racist who complains about racists. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1098 "2018-09-18T19:18:28Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Not particularly. I was responding to the ignorance of the original post to which I was replying, which made explicit reference to antiquity by use of the phrase “over the millennia”: > > I apologize for drawing you in to this as well, it was not my intention. Still, at least you replied, unlike **SlackerInc**. Fair enough, no worries. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1099 "2018-09-18T19:32:02Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Be forthright here, do you disagree that more men than not would be more attracted (sexually) to what _our culture_ defines as a woman with feminine traits than to a woman with more unconventional, even tradition-_rejecting_ traits? I’m not asking what you would be more attracted to but rather what you believe is true of our society in general. > [@](#): > > [suspect just about everyone who lives in our society is affected by that culture, I just wouldn’t extrapolate that to being able to make conclusions about traits that “most” men find unattractive. > > > [@](#): > > > > [ > > QUOTE=BigT;21215301]He did answer. He said “no.” He doesn’t agree with your generalization. He doesn’t think there is enough data to lead to your conclusion. Above is the question I posed to Andy. Immediately below that is his response. I see that as equivocation. I was asking him for his opinion, not any sort of documented factual answer that could stand up to the scrutiny of rigorous analysis. I’ve seen Andy give his opinion countless times before. Here he equivocates, saying he agrees “everyone is _affected_ by that culture” (the culture that I describe as conditioning men to be attracted to specfic and arbitrary notions of female beauty) but he “can’t extrapolate that knowledge to draw conclusions as to what **most** men are attracted to”. So what exactly was he originally agreeing with me about anyway, in re to the influence of our culture that puts arbitrary notions of female beauty and youth on a pedestal? By saying that he thinks that just about “everyone” is influenced by this culture, he is necessarily including just about all men. So he’s agreeing that just about all men are influenced by this culture that conditions men to an arbitrary standard of female beauty, yet he is unwilling to say that he thinks most men are more attracted to these arbitrary traits than a lack of or even an active rejection of these idealized feminine traits? How is that not pure equivocation and double-speak? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1100 "2018-09-18T19:40:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I didn’t say it _had to_ be a state to be a hegemony. Yeah, you kinda did. And now that this was proven to be a stupid and indefensible assertion, you are madly deflecting and trying to rewrite very recent history. Feel free to insist otherwise, with lots of hostile verbiage sprinkled in for good measure. Anyone is free to scroll up the screen a few posts if they even care. > [@MrDibble](#): > > But if it _is_ a state - like your \*own stupid examples \*of India and Pakistan and Hitlerstan - then to be a hegemon, it has to exercise control _over like but lesser polities_. Did you really forget what I actually said, or are you desperately spinning to try to avoid looking stupid? (Psst: it’s not working.) Just in case it’s the former, I’ll refresh your memory: > [@SlackerInc](#): > > I said “over the millennia”, but even if we limit it to modern times: Muslims in Pakistan, Hindus in India, Han Chinese, Sunnis or Shiites as the case may be in the Middle East. You may want to bone up on the concept of prepositional phrases. Don’t they diagram sentences in South Africa? Anyway, those are references to dominant religious or ethnic groups within countries (or within a region in the case of the Middle East), not to the countries themselves as nation-state actors. And the hegemony I was referring to was that exerted over the non-dominant religious or ethnic groups within those countries. (Kinda like the hegemony exerted over nonwhites by whites in the U.S., that being the original point of comparison.). Not to hegemony over other states. That should have been crystal clear to anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension. It continues to amaze me that you not only get such basic points wrong, but that you are so aggressive and even boisterous in your trash-talking, like you think you just dunked on me—when the reality is that I swatted your weak-ass shot into the fifth row like finger-wagging Dikembe Mutombo in his prime. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1101 "2018-09-18T20:01:21Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Above is the question I posed to Andy. Immediately below that is his response. I see that as equivocation. I was asking him for his opinion, not any sort of documented factual answer that could stand up to the scrutiny of rigorous analysis. I’ve seen Andy give his opinion countless times before. Here he equivocates, saying he agrees “everyone is _affected_ by that culture” (the culture that I describe as conditioning men to be attracted to specfic and arbitrary notions of female beauty) but he “can’t extrapolate that knowledge to draw conclusions as to what **most** men are attracted to”. > > So what exactly was he originally agreeing with me about anyway, in re to the influence of our culture that puts arbitrary notions of female beauty and youth on a pedestal? By saying that he thinks that just about “everyone” is influenced by this culture, he is necessarily including just about all men. So he’s agreeing that just about all men are influenced by this culture that conditions men to an arbitrary standard of female beauty, yet he is unwilling to say that he thinks most men are more attracted to these arbitrary traits than a lack of or even an active rejection of these idealized feminine traits? How is that not pure equivocation and double-speak? Yes, everyone is influenced. How that influence translates into what qualifies as “attractive” and “unattractive” undoubtedly varies, and based on my experience talking to people about who’s attractive, varies so widely that there are very few features that I think can be reasonably said to be attractive or unattractive for “most” people of any category. And I don’t think any of the features you criticized Serena’s attractiveness for would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1102 "2018-09-18T21:21:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yeah, you kinda did. “kinda” is weak tea. Quote me saying it \*had \*to be a state, or fuck off. > [@](#): > > Did you really forget what I actually said Did \*you \*forget you made more than one post? The ones where you undoubtedly _were_ referring to states, not ethnicities. Ethnicities don’t have nuclear weapons, states do. Hell, in the Hitler one, you used the fucking word “state”? You don’t get to freely jump from one form of hegemony to another when it’s convenient for your - for lack of a better word - “argument” and then try and pretend you meant another. One of us is trying to backpedal, you tedious and obvious asshole, but it’s not me. > [@](#): > > Anyway, those are references to dominant religious or ethnic groups within countries (or within a region in the case of the Middle East), not to the countries themselves as nation-state actors. Pedal, pedal, pedal… > [@](#): > > And the hegemony I was referring to was that exerted over the non-dominant religious or ethnic groups within those countries. Pakistani Muslims and Indian Hindus exercise internal hegemony with nuclear weapons? Are you \*reading \* what you’ve typed before you hit send, you simp? Obviously not, or you wouldn’t have posted such a laughable attempt at covering your ass. As you like to point out, everyone can see what we both wrote. > [@](#): > > Not to hegemony over other states. That should have been crystal clear to anyone with a modicum of reading comprehension. I brought up states because you were referring to state hegemony with your nuclear weapon bullshit. It’s too late to walk that back now. > [@](#): > > It continues to amaze me that you not only get such basic points wrong Your stupidity, and your misplaced conviction of your own cleverness, however, is no surprise. Like I intimated earlier, a Dunning-Kruger turd in human form. > [@](#): > > , but that you are so aggressive and even boisterous in your trash-talking, like you think you just dunked on me—when the reality is that I swatted your weak-ass shot into the fifth row like finger-wagging Dikembe Mutombo in his prime. 🆒 Sorry, don’t speak American “sports”, but it sounds like you’re saying you’re… Winning? because of your … let me get this clear …Tiger Blood and Adonis DNA? Sure, man, whatever you say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=56)