# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 73
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1443 "2019-05-07T14:27:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What on that video indicates that her death wasn’t a suicide? > > Regards, > Shodan The brutal and baseless treatment by the officer in question and her eagerness to take it to court. And that they hid it for four fuckin’ years. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1444 "2019-05-07T14:30:41Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Remember Sandra Bland, a woman who allegedly killed herself after being detained during a traffic stop? > > 4 years later, we get [secret cell phone footage from her arrest](https://twitter.com/shaunking/status/1125738872481165320). > > If you weren’t suspicious about her “suicide” beforehand, maybe you should be now. She absolutely had the right to record the officer, and the officer undoubtedly mishandled the situation from the beginning. Unfortunately, in most cases, it’s still better to not fight back against an officer and to let courts decide whether the officer violated her civil rights or not. We live in a society in which cops can murder civilians and civilian juries will hold officers for it in only the most extreme cases of abuse, and only where there is an overwhelming amount of proof. And even then those criteria aren’t always enough. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1445 "2019-05-07T14:42:59Z")
Like, just so we’re clear… > **[New cellphone video shows what Sandra Bland saw during arrest by Texas trooper](https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05/06/sandra-bland-shot-cell-phone-video-texas-trooper-arrest/)** > > The family of Sandra Bland — who died in a Waller County jail cell — is calling for a reopening of the criminal investigation into Bland's arrest and death after seeing footage for the first time. > [@](#): > > At this point, Bland began recording Encinia with her cell phone just moments before Encinia pulls his Taser, points it at Bland and says, “I will light you up! Get out! Now!” > > After the arrest, Encinia told authorities that he feared for his life and didn’t know what Bland could grab inside her car and purse. > > “My safety was in jeopardy at more than one time,” Encinia told investigators. > > Encinia was fired from the DPS and indicted by a grand jury for perjury, a charge that was later dropped when Encinia gave up his license and agreed to never work as a cop again. …I dunno, I feel like this is a pretty good reason to be suspicious about her suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1446 "2019-05-07T15:04:12Z")
You’re right, you don’t know, and it isn’t a good reason. Do you think it wasn’t a suicide? Do you think the video of her jail cell for the hours before her body was found were faked? By who - the jail personnel? Did you think her previous suicide attempts were a hoax? Do you believe the medical records that showed her to be at increased risk for suicide were not real? Flesh out your thoughts a little here. These cell phone videos don’t really show anything new. We know she was Tazer-ed for resisting, that the Tazer-ing was against police policy, that her arrest was legal under the laws of that state, etc. If Ms. Bland wanted to go to court, why did she kill herself? Why didn’t she wait? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1447 "2019-05-07T15:08:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If Ms. Bland wanted to go to court, why did she kill herself? Why didn’t she wait? I think it’s that question that leads BPC to question the official narrative of what happened to her in jail. I’m not saying I view it that way, but if you wonder why people are suspicious of her death, you’ve answered your own question by raising the question you asked. Even so, you’ve raised an issue of circumstantial logic, which isn’t the same as forensic evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1448 "2019-05-07T15:38:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think it’s that question that leads BPC to question the official narrative of what happened to her in jail. I’m not saying I view it that way, but if you wonder why people are suspicious of her death, you’ve answered your own question by raising the question you asked. Even so, you’ve raised an issue of circumstantial logic, which isn’t the same as forensic evidence. That’s a fair point, but my point in response is that the cell phone video isn’t circumstantial evidence of Bland being murdered. And there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that it was suicide. And if video recording of Bland’s cell is forensic evidence, there is forensic evidence that it wasn’t murder. I suspect **BPC** is either Just Asking Questions, or pushing a conspiracy theory. AFAICT all such questions were already addressed in the monster thread about the Bland arrest and death (and the cell phone video adds nothing that we didn’t already know), and conspiracy theories aren’t susceptible to refutation by evidence or reason. As mentioned before, God Himself descends from heaven to a collection of conspiracy theorists, and announces that Oswald acted alone, the WTC towers collapsed from the airliners crashing into them, Obama was born in Hawaii, and Sandra Bland committed suicide. “Wow”, says one theorist to another. “The conspiracy goes deeper than we thought!” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1449 "2019-05-07T16:27:34Z")
If you look at every tree in isolation, you’ll never see the forest. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1450 "2019-05-07T16:36:58Z")
See that thing over there on the corner, about six feet tall, red, metal, and it says STOP? That’s a tree. Therefore, we live in a forest. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1451 "2019-05-07T16:46:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s a fair point, but my point in response is that the cell phone video isn’t circumstantial evidence of Bland being murdered. And there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that it was suicide. And if video recording of Bland’s cell is forensic evidence, there is forensic evidence that it wasn’t murder. Okay, so best case scenario, an at-risk woman was assaulted, threatened, falsely imprisoned, and then took her own life in the process. There is some circumstantial evidence that Bland committed suicide. Granted. I still think it’s really hard to rule out murder when people close to her insist that this suicide came out of nowhere, and she was pretty insistent on having her day in court. Particularly given the other shit we’ve seen cops get away with. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1452 "2019-05-07T17:02:59Z")
Story from my weekend visit to Lowe’s: I was browsing in the garden tool section when I heard someone behind me say “Excuse me.” I turned around to see a young black man holding up an axe in each hand. :eek: After experiencing a momentary cortisol surge, I heard him asking my opinion on which axe I thought would be better for him to buy for his younger brother (who needed an axe for an unnamed project). I noticed one ax had a plain wooden handle and the other some type of rubberized grip, and observed that it might be advantageous to buy the slightly more expensive ax with the better grip, so as to lessen the possibility of the ax slipping during use. “You know, that’s a good point” said the man. When I left to shop elsewhere, he was still staring at the axe display. So: was it racist of me to have a split-second of omigod when I turned around to see him wielding an axe in each hand, and should I have been ashamed of thinking about monitoring news broadcasts for awhile to see if any axe murders were being reported? These are momentous questions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1453 "2019-05-07T17:07:59Z")
It’s easier to rule out murder when you have video of her jail cell showing no one else in or out of it for hours before she died, and when people close to her say it came out of nowhere and she attempted it before, and that she had conditions like PTSD (and epilepsy) that put her at elevated risk for suicide, as well as the usual objections to conspiracy theories. We went over all this at inordinate length in a [previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=763012&highlight=Bland) and the cell phone video isn’t bringing up any new evidence. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1454 "2019-05-07T17:53:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So: was it racist of me to have a split-second of omigod when I turned around to see him wielding an axe in each hand, and should I have been ashamed of thinking about monitoring news broadcasts for awhile to see if any axe murders were being reported? Do you think you would have reacted differently if it was someone with ancestry from Korea, Finland, or Bolivia wielding two axes? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1455 "2019-05-07T18:20:34Z")
Aren’t most ax murderers white? You should have been relieved it was a black guy. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1456 "2019-05-07T18:55:48Z")
[Another (i.e. SPLC) white liberal tries to show his racial sensitivity](http://www.wtmj.com/shows/the-steve-scaffidi-show/milwaukee-alderman-zielinski-claims-common-council-bases-decisions-on-color-of-our-skin-/1076001702) and ends up demeaning the hard work of blacks, including the president of the council he’s on, and he has since doubled down. Search for “Terry Witkowski” if the link doesn’t work - the URL has the name of the wrong alderman. > [@](#): > > “This term is more an anti-mayor/color-of-our-skin council…fairness and issues don’t seem to matter much.” > > Those words by Milwaukee Alderman Terry Witkowski, as cited by the Journal Sentinel’s Dan Bice, are rankling many Common Council members and far beyond the walls of City Hall. They came from a taxpayer-funded newsletter he sent to people in the neighborhoods he represents. > > He also said that in his first term, “the council seemed to vote by race.” Then in his next few terms under former Common Council presidents Willie Hines and Michael Murphy," the councils voted on issues and the best interest of the city." > > Numerous council members publicly criticized him, including council president Ashanti Hamilton. > > “The suggestion belittles the time, energy and thoughtfulness that all council members go through to make tough decisions for our city,” he said, per Bice. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1457 "2019-05-07T22:32:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … We live in a society in which cops can murder civilians and civilian juries will hold officers for it in only the most extreme cases of abuse, and only where there is an overwhelming amount of proof. And even then those criteria aren’t always enough. Unless it’s Mississippi, the officer is black and the victim is white. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/us/mohamed-noor-guilty.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/us/mohamed-noor-guilty.html) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1458 "2019-05-07T22:57:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “The city isn’t ready for this” = “Hey, **I’m** not racist! It’s the **city** that’s racist! If it were up to me, I’d totally support black people!” > > “It goes against my Christian beliefs” = “Hey, **I’m** not racist! It’s **God** that’s racist! If it were up to me, I’d totally support black people!” The icing on the cake is the mayor in question is a woman. It was not that long ago that women were prohibited from politics based on scripture, right? This is just another example of “hurting the right people”. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1459 "2019-05-08T01:30:50Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Unless it’s Mississippi, the officer is black and the victim is white. [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/us/mohamed-noor-guilty.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/03/us/mohamed-noor-guilty.html) Mississippi or Minnesota? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1460 "2019-05-08T08:36:42Z")
“The Sandra Bland video is why the term “conspiracy theory” doesn’t apply to Black Americans. There is no existing language to describe the constant, routinely validated suspicion of foul play that haunts you as a people when your murder was functionally legal for over 200 yrs.” > ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1461 "2019-05-08T10:34:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “The Sandra Bland video is why the term “conspiracy theory” doesn’t apply to Black Americans. There is no existing language to describe the constant, routinely validated suspicion of foul play that haunts you as a people when your murder was functionally legal for over 200 yrs.” > > [https://twitter.com/ashtongraham/status/1125827814673059840?s=19](https://twitter.com/ashtongraham/status/1125827814673059840?s=19) It also explains why some black people just can’t trust the white people in America, particularly when it’s white people who vote the government into power, who hire its administrative civil servants and its local police force, who serve on juries that wrongfully convict and condemn black people for crimes they didn’t commit on one hand, and who on the other hand let officers who commit murder go free because “I was afraid for my life”. Maybe it’s a little easier to understand someone like Huey Freeman when you stop and think about the ugly truth of this country’s history, which isn’t to say that you have to like him or necessarily agree with him, but it helps to understand the anger and the distrust, and where it comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1462 "2019-05-08T10:51:51Z")
I understand why people like Huey are angry and distrustful. That doesn’t excuse him or anyone from the consequences of being a rampaging asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=72) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=74)