# Living while black in America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611 "2018-07-09T21:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1643 "2020-05-27T17:58:30Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Dog walker was CLEARLY in wrong, if for no reason other than having dog off leash in designated nature area. > > But birdwatcher’s actions are not entirely laudable either. > > “I’m going to do something and you aren’t going to like it.” Doesn’t take too much to view that as a threat - whether or not he later pulls out a dog biscuit or a knife. > > And he admits, his goal in offering dog biscuits was to annoy the dog owner. No possibility that he could have chosen an approach that was not admittedly intended to annoy/anger (I forget his specific word)? He was 100% in the right. He was confronting a scofflaw, and instead of calling 911 on her and pretending like she was threatening him and trying to get her arrested, he calmly tells her the law, then arranges the mildest possible rebuke, in a way that annoys her **without annoying the dog** , who’s done nothing wrong. His response is hilariously apt, and he’s a hero, goddammit. And your need to criticize him instead of focusing on her attempt to have him attacked by police? Check your shit. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1644 "2020-05-27T18:06:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He was 100% in the right. … Check your shit. Fine. Act however you feel appropriate when you perceive someone to be “a scofflaw”. Just welcome anyone else - including police and the courts - interpreting your actions as an assault, interference with their property, disturbing the peace, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1645 "2020-05-27T18:08:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > His response is hilariously apt, and he’s a hero, goddammit. And your need to criticize him instead of focusing on her attempt to have him attacked by police? Check your shit. Hero? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1646 "2020-05-27T18:35:06Z")
Some people you say “check,” they hear “double down on.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1647 "2020-05-27T19:10:29Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And he admits, his goal in offering dog biscuits was to annoy the dog owner. No possibility that he could have chosen an approach that was not admittedly intended to annoy/anger (I forget his specific word)? [His goal was to get the owner to leash the dog:](https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/us/central-park-video-dog-video-african-american-trnd/index.html) > [@CNN](#): > > Christian Cooper said he then pulled out dog treats. He told CNN **he keeps dog treats with him to get dog owners to put their dogs on leashes** because, in his experience, dog owners hate when a stranger feeds their dog treats and immediately restrain their dogs afterward. The annoyance of the dog owner may be a necessary step in the process, but it’s not the goal. I suspect that anything that guy did, short of quietly leaving the area, was going to be annoying to her. Interestingly, after the dog biscuits were offered the dog owner in this case _still_ wouldn’t leash her dog, instead preferring to strangle the unfortunate animal by hoisting it nearly off of the ground. 😕 > [@Dinsdale](#): > > But the birdwatcher acted in a way that he knew would escalate tensions. That you see someone violating a municipal code does not entitle you to threaten them or interfere with their property. Birdwatcher could have filmed her and called cops himself. He didn’t threaten her; all he said was she wasn’t going to like what he would do next. The idea that he “interfered” with her property is debatable. If he walked up to her leashed dog and dangled a biscuit in its face, I’d say yes. But enticing an unleashed dog from several yards away? If the dog wanders over then she’s not in control of her animal, and that’s not his fault in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1648 "2020-05-27T19:40:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Fine. Act however you feel appropriate when you perceive someone to be “a scofflaw”. Just welcome anyone else - including police and the courts - interpreting your actions as an assault, interference with their property, disturbing the peace, etc. Yep, dog treats are now assault. Fucking seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1649 "2020-05-27T19:52:58Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Hero? Yes, I’d say he was a hero. He came up with a creative solution (feeding dog treats) to an ongoing problem (people walking their dogs without leashes). Then when some racist loon lost her shit, he stayed calm and reasonable. _“If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1650 "2020-05-27T19:59:11Z")
Fine. Act however you wish, and happily allow cops and courts to interpret it how they will. If I were a man alone in a park w/ a strange woman, I would certainly not say that I was going to do something they wouldn’t like. Doesn’t matter what our respective skin colors. And whatever one’s goal, intentionally annoying someone generally suggests to me that another option might be preferable. But, different strokes. And I generally expect everyone i meet - whether walking dogs or watching birds, to be unreasonable. I already said twice that the woman was CLEARLY wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1651 "2020-05-27T20:01:55Z")
IN the Minneapolis case, I just wonder, what where the cops thinking? This wasn’t someone resisting arrest, or even “resisting arrest”, he was cuffed. What did kneeling on him accomplish? Are the cops so fucked in the head that they thought…what? No one would care? It doesn’t make any sense. And I wonder if the other cops are all “the city doesn’t support us”, the old blue wall thing. How many Minneapolis cops are going to go on strike to protest the firing of their “bother officers”? I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1652 "2020-05-27T20:11:44Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > **Mr. Octopus** is on record: Blacks have only themselves to blame for racism in America; Because if they don’t like it they should find a new country. > > ( **Mr. Octopus** will deny this — all right-wingers are liars — but he has said as much more than once, in almost those words.) I never said that you mentally deficient fool. I said, to paraphrase, if a country was too dangerous to live in than migration is a rational decision. Anyways, find the links of what I’ve said and prove you are not a liar. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1653 "2020-05-27T20:15:47Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I never said that you mentally deficient fool. I said, to paraphrase, if a country was too dangerous to live in than migration is a rational decision. Anyways, find the links of what I’ve said and prove you are not a liar. Here: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22323617&postcount=1649](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22323617&postcount=1649) Basically, you’re saying that if a country is too dangerous to live in (not for everyone, of course, because the US isn’t too dangerous for white people), they should consider leaving. How about, the US stops beating, reporting on, and killing black people for no reason? They are more American than nearly everyone here – most have been here for many generations, whereas my parents came off the boat. Maybe they should kick out the white people, you know, the ones making it too dangerous for them. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1654 "2020-05-27T20:23:03Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > “Protect their own” over truth is a digusting idea. A decent person’s “own” should be decency first and foremost. I agree. However, the courage to have convictions and then to stand by them is a rare thing. It’s a disturbing trait how organizations form thin lines or wagon circles to protect their own. It’s disturbing how what looks like an obvious murder is so casually committed. It’s also ironic that it’s this thread where a conversation about the arbitrary application of “justice” on a black man is occurring. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1655 "2020-05-27T20:27:36Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Yep, dog treats are now assault. > > Fucking seriously? Surely dog treats could be poisoned, and urgent defense of the dog was dictated before a 2nd poisonous biscuit could be crammed down the innocent dog’s throat. Did the dog’s owner empty his magazine into this poisoner? Acquitted! (And shame on any D.A. who brings this _good kill_ to trial. I think the case should be added to the “Guns help me masturbate” thread in MPSIMS as another positive gun story.) There wasn’t even a shooting? 😕 I hope the heartless and cowardly woman who failed to protect her dog is drummed out of the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1656 "2020-05-27T20:27:56Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Dog walker was CLEARLY in wrong, if for no reason other than having dog off leash in designated nature area. > > But birdwatcher’s actions are not entirely laudable either. > > “I’m going to do something and you aren’t going to like it.” Doesn’t take too much to view that as a threat - whether or not he later pulls out a dog biscuit or a knife. > > And he admits, his goal in offering dog biscuits was to annoy the dog owner. No possibility that he could have chosen an approach that was not admittedly intended to annoy/anger (I forget his specific word)? > > I’m a birdwatcher and a dog owner/walker. I repeat, the dog owner was clearly wrong in not using a leash, by refusing to leash the dog when confronted, and by her subsequent reaction. But the birdwatcher acted in a way that he knew would escalate tensions. That you see someone violating a municipal code does not entitle you to threaten them or interfere with their property. Birdwatcher could have filmed her and called cops himself. EVERY time I have asked a dog owner to leash their dog, they refused. Every time. Birdwatcher came up with a pretty decent solution, in my opinion - offer the dog a treat, and the owner proactively leashes the dog. People occasionally offered my dog a treat while we were out (back when I still had my dog). In no universe would I have considered it a threatening move. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1657 "2020-05-27T20:32:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Here: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22323617&postcount=1649](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22323617&postcount=1649) > > Basically, you’re saying that if a country is too dangerous to live in (not for everyone, of course, because the US isn’t too dangerous for white people), they should consider leaving. How about, the US stops beating, reporting on, and killing black people for no reason? They are more American than nearly everyone here – most have been here for many generations, whereas my parents came off the boat. Maybe they should kick out the white people, you know, the ones making it too dangerous for them. That would be the ideal solution. Yet, until that occurs each individual needs to make rational choices. It’s not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1658 "2020-05-27T20:41:28Z")
If ‘you’re not going to like what I do next’ is a serious threat, what the devil is, every ‘Karen’s’ scream of, ‘I’m gonna get you fired?’ He told her she wouldn’t like it. She saw the phone come out. That’s TWO solid chances for her to get a grip on herself. That she CHOSE to ignore. And if you want to talk escalation, she had EVERY opportunity to turn, ignore him and just walk off. But she called into the police, lied about being threatened and purposely sounded in danger, which she was not. Actions that could have seen him killed. THAT’S escalation, right there. She was provided several chances to change the course of the encounter that has cost her so dearly. She ignored them all. She was entirely the engineer of her own demise. You wanna be proudly racist, you deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1659 "2020-05-27T20:53:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I agree. However, the courage to have convictions and then to stand by them is a rare thing. It’s a disturbing trait how organizations form thin lines or wagon circles to protect their own. It’s disturbing how what looks like an obvious murder is so casually committed. > > It’s also ironic that it’s this thread where a conversation about the arbitrary application of “justice” on a black man is occurring. I don’t think it is all that rare. It’s just a coward’s excuse that it is hard. And tribe is an easy place for a coward to hide. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1660 "2020-05-27T20:55:07Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Fine. Act however you wish, and happily allow cops and courts to interpret it how they will. > > If I were a man alone in a park w/ a strange woman, I would certainly not say that I was going to do something they wouldn’t like. Doesn’t matter what our respective skin colors. And whatever one’s goal, intentionally annoying someone generally suggests to me that another option might be preferable. I’m a strange woman who goes to the park alone a lot. Yes, if a man came up to me and said he was about to do something that I wasn’t going to like, I wouldn’t like it. I wouldn’t like it if anyone said that to me. Especially if I was minding my own business, not doing anything wrong. But that’s not this chick. She _was_ doing something wrong and she actually wasn’t minding her own business–her business being her dog and the damage he was inflicting on city property. She wasn’t entitled to an annoyance-free existence. A person is only entitled to that when they are doing what they’re supposed to be doing. To me, this no different than stopping kids from vandalizing public property by yelling at them. You standing there scolding them is definitely going to annoy them. But isn’t that the point? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1661 "2020-05-27T21:16:56Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > But birdwatcher’s actions are not entirely laudable either. > > “I’m going to do something and you aren’t going to like it.” Doesn’t take too much to view that as a threat - whether or not he later pulls out a dog biscuit or a knife. I think when you have to go to this ridiculous extreme to find the birdwatcher at fault in any way you’re being an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611/1662 "2020-05-27T21:31:21Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > People occasionally offered my dog a treat while we were out (back when I still had my dog). In no universe would I have considered it a threatening move. I carry a pocket full of dog biscuits in my coat at all times, just in case of an encounter with those of the _Canis_ persuasion, a common event in my neighborhood. Some know me well, and look forward to an encounter. However, I never offer a biscuit to a dog without the owner’s permission, because there are some butt-hurt owners who don’t want their dogs to eat it – dietary restrictions or other :dubious: reasons --perhaps irrational, but I respect their wishes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/living-while-black-in-america/817611.md?page=84)