# Liz Phair
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 30, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845 "2005-07-30T03:17:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/1 "2005-07-30T03:17:10Z")
I just got home from a truly phenomenal concert – Liz Phair in a tiny venue playing plugged-in acoustic with only one other musician, an excellent guitarist who sang some harmonies.
She walked onstage, unannounced, sat down, kicked off her sandals, and started with “Polyester Bride.” She played a slew of stuff from _Exile_, a bunch from _whitechocolate_, and one or two songs from each of the others. The only song she didn’t sing that I was really hoping for was _Perfect World_, which seemed like a natural – ah well.
She did “Fuck and Run” for her finale, and “Flower” for the encore.
I was sitting 30 feet from her.
My face hurts from grinning with delight. My throat is sore from “woo-hooing” after every song.
Damn.
I love Liz Phair.
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### Author:  [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/2 "2005-07-30T03:31:03Z")
I love Liz Phair, but I didn’t pick up her most recent album after it got a bunch of negative reviews. I’ve just heard lousy things about her recently, which bummed me out.
It’s nice to hear something positive about her! Sounds like a great concert.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/3 "2005-07-30T03:34:10Z")
I didn’t care much for the album that came out last year – two years ago? – but she played three or four songs from the one coming out in October (her reaction to – hold on – Stevie Wonder’s _Songs in the Key of Life_), and I’m definitely going to be getting it.
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### Author:  [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/4 "2005-07-30T04:07:38Z")
Huh. _Songs in the Key of Life_ is an amazing album, but…
Okay, well, I’ll look out for the new one in October.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/5 "2005-07-30T20:15:25Z")
Liz Phair’s last album is different, but I think it’s really good. Anyone who gave it a bad review is one of those tiny little pea-brain music critics (that you see everywhere, sadly) who cannot forgive an artist from doing something other than what made them famous in the first place. There’s no “Chopsticks” on _Liz Phair_, certainly, but there are a lot of great songs, most of which sound different but in mood are very much Liz Phair songs. So, assuming you’re not one of those pea-brains that can’t allow an artist to do anything other than what they did back in 1992 (and you’re not), you’ll like the album.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/6 "2005-07-30T20:32:52Z")
And even if she did sell out with her most recent album, at least it WORKED – “Why Can’t I?” was a sizable hit, appearing on more than one movie soundtrack. If you’re going to toss away your indie cred for a shot at the big time, the worst thing in the world that can happen is that the big time doesn’t want you, leaving you with no audience at all.
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### Author:  [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/7 "2005-07-30T20:35:05Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> Liz Phair’s last album is different, but I think it’s really good. Anyone who gave it a bad review is one of those tiny little pea-brain music critics (that you see everywhere, sadly) who cannot forgive an artist from doing something other than what made them famous in the first place. There’s no “Chopsticks” on _Liz Phair_, certainly, but there are a lot of great songs, most of which sound different but in mood are very much Liz Phair songs. So, assuming you’re not one of those pea-brains that can’t allow an artist to do anything other than what they did back in 1992 (and you’re not), you’ll like the album.
>
> –Cliffy
Well, I can’t speak for all critics, but I think a lot of the hatred for her self-titled album had nothing to do with her “changing her style” but more to do with “changing her style to something that was really, really shit.”
Serious music fans are all for artists evolving. In fact, artists who DON’T evolve are usually frowned upon. But Liz Phair’s self-titled record is viewed as a devolution in terms of style, creativity, and most importantly, substance, from that of her earlier works.
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/8 "2005-07-30T20:50:24Z")
I’ve been a fan of Liz Phair since Exile in Guyville, but her last album didn’t speak to me at all. Not only did it de-emphasize her kickass guitar work, but she sounded less like someone expanding her musical chops and more like someone attempting to ape the talent-bereft “hottie, scantily-clad girl pop singers” that were all over the charts at the time of release.
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### Author:  [@hey\_alright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hey_alright)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/9 "2005-07-30T21:36:30Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#):
>
> And even if she did sell out with her most recent album, at least it WORKED – “Why Can’t I?” was a sizable hit, appearing on more than one movie soundtrack. If you’re going to toss away your indie cred for a shot at the big time, the worst thing in the world that can happen is that the big time doesn’t want you, leaving you with no audience at all.
She had a couple of hits that made it on a few movie soundtracks, but the album still sold very poorly, [only moving 405,000 copies](http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000893573) so far. That’s about where she was with her other albums.
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### Author:  [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/10 "2005-07-30T22:24:46Z")
> [@hey alright](#):
>
> She had a couple of hits that made it on a few movie soundtracks, but the album still sold very poorly, [only moving 405,000 copies](http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000893573) so far. That’s about where she was with her other albums.
Your point about total units sold is well taken. But not all soundtrack contributions are created equal. “Extraordinary” (from the _Raising Helen_ soundtrack) and “Why Can’t I?” (from the _13 Going On 30_, _Win A Date With Tad Hamilton!_ and _How To Deal_ soundtracks) were the kinds of songs that run over the movie trailers and in the commercials. Her previous soundtrack contributions were not, I don’t think, as important, serving more as filler. And those four movies are the highest-profile that she has contributed to (although _High Fidelity_ was certainly no Super-8 student film project).
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/11 "2005-08-09T19:59:53Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#):
>
> someone attempting to ape the talent-bereft “hottie, scantily-clad girl pop singers” that were all over the charts at the time of release.
Your argument would carry more weight if it were not Liz Phair we’re talking about here – trading on sex appeal is what she’s always done.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/12 "2005-08-09T20:18:21Z")
I think “Exile in Guyville” is the one of the best rock albulms of all time… that being said… I have HATED every one of her other albulms.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/liz-phair/314845/13 "2005-08-09T20:31:05Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> Liz Phair’s last album is different, but I think it’s really good. Anyone who gave it a bad review is one of those tiny little pea-brain music critics (that you see everywhere, sadly) who cannot forgive an artist from doing something other than what made them famous in the first place. There’s no “Chopsticks” on _Liz Phair_, certainly, but there are a lot of great songs, most of which sound different but in mood are very much Liz Phair songs. So, assuming you’re not one of those pea-brains that can’t allow an artist to do anything other than what they did back in 1992 (and you’re not), you’ll like the album.
>
> –Cliffy
I don’t know. There’s plenty of disposable pop that I like, but I really wasn’t hot at all about her last album. It’s very bland. Sure, there’s plenty of hipper-than-thou scenesters that deride everything she’s done since _Exile_, but I think she’s had decent, if unexceptional, output through _whitechocolatespaceegg_. In fact, the uber-poppy “What Makes You Happy” off that album is one of my favorite Liz Phair tunes, period.
Now, she has no obligation to please the indie kids and has made a conscious decision to go Cheryl Crowe light (if there even can be such a description) on us. However, it just simply doesn’t work for me. Her newest work just sounds very hollow and soulless to me. I’ve heard a couple of the tracks off the new album, and all I can say is that I’m not anxious to hear anything more.
I respect her for putting out the music she wants to put out, and not simply churning out what’s “expected” of her. But I don’t feel her music is maturing. I don’t want her to put out another _Exile_. She can’t. That’s a snapshot of a time and place that cannot be reproduced. Nor should it. But I don’t feel her new albums have the passion that fired her first few records. They sound complacent to me, for lack of better word.