"Lobbyists Won't Find A Job in My White House!"

Everyone with a functioning brain knows that campaign promises get broken frequently and flagrantly. Complaining about it is silly and desperate. Complain when/if he does bad things, not breaks a stupid campaign promise, every politician does that.

I’m not saying he didn’t break it, it was a stupid promise that was inevitably going to be broken. This is still petty shit. Complain when he allows people to be tortured or something.

Oh wait, the last guy did that, and you didn’t complain. Nevermind.

Quick question - did it really work when Bush supporters mentioned the faults of the Clinton administration whenever Bush was criticized about anything?

What makes you think this will work with Obama? He likely won’t try to pull this kind of thing off - I’m surprised you’d try it.

People will be judged by what they do. If this turns out not to be a big deal, it will blow over. But if it turns out to be indicative of other broken promises or even devolves into full-bore corruption, it won’t be dealt with so lightly. And what Bush did regarding detainees will have nothing to do with either outcome.

There’s a bit of a difference,** Moto**. What Clinton handed off to Bush was a country in pretty reasonable shape, surplus money, balanced budget (or as close as that term ever applies…), all in all, pretty good stuff. What Bush hands off to Obama is a shit sandwich, hold the mayo.

And what Bush did with detainees is add another talking point for your local Al Queda recruiter. “America doesn’t give a rat’s ass about human rights, only about American rights.” I’d really like to have some proof that they’re lying, or at least wrong. Got any?

Breaking promises is a bad thing in and of itself. A representative government MUST be trustworthy. People are assigning large amounts of their political power to these individuals. They make the decision of who to invest this power in based on the premise the elected official will stick to their promises barring dire circumstances. The entire reason campaigning politicians make promises is because they know they are being elected both to carry out specific actions AND to use their best judgment when the situation was not foreseeable or changes. Someone who abandons the former without the justification of the latter has broken faith with the electorate and should be held accountable. If they had reasons, let them present them. Adhering to the will of the people is their duty and they should not depart from promises without damn good reason.

Enjoy,
Steven

But all of this is immaterial to the current discussion, in which even a strong Obama supporter may disagree with his particular actions here.

Right?

My functioning brain tells me that Obama based much of his campaign on the notion that he was a new kind of politician, and a squeaky-clean outsider. It didn’t take very long for that to fall by the wayside.

But I tend to believe that saying things you don’t believe is a bad thing, even for Obama. Perhaps especially for him. There were several claims made on the SDMB that Obama was qualified for President because of how he conducted his campaign. Now we are finding out that he conducted his campaign at least in part on things he either couldn’t follow thru on, or never meant in the first place.

My take on it is that his lack of executive experience led him into error. Now, within a few days, he has encountered reality. Had he had anything resembling relevant experience, maybe he would not have made a public commitment where someone less naive would have known better.

Which leads to the question raised earlier - what other promises did he make that are too dumb to keep? Are there any? Should he be given carte blanche, and nobody really knows what he will do in the Oval Office?

I realize there will be a core of Obamaniacs who are committed to the man, not the policies (if any). Just as Bush retained the support of a quarter to a third of the electorate, no doubt there is a similar proportion of the electorate would regard him favorably even were he to sodomize a spaniel on the White House lawn. After all, he did promise his girls that they could have a dog in the White House.

But it would be a useful exercise to figure out which are the promises he should be expected to keep, even if it is hard to do. Or are there any?

Some, obviously, he can’t -

Some even I recognize as hopelessly naive -

especially since he promises

Yeah, that’s certain to reduce the number of federal contractors. :wink:

But how about the rest?

Did he mean, for instance, this -

How about this -

Regards,
Shodan

It seems you are starting at your conclusion and working to the facts. He said the lobbyists wouldn’t be in his whitehouse, then clarified. He might be guilty of overstating something a year ago, but his policy has been consistent now. Do you honestly think the EO is being subverted by waivers? Four people? And each of those a particular talent in their field.

As for the other things, you can’t expect campaign promises made before the economic meltdown to be in effect after. You do understand that keeping promises made in average economic times is unwise when we’re in the Mother of All Recessions, right?

Let’s set this line apart so you’ll be sure to see it. Do you think that economic campaign promises made when the economy was mid-ranging apply now that the economy is in a crisis?

That seems like ragging on a performer canceling a concert because the stadium is on fire. Are you honestly suggesting that broken economic promises made before the meltdown are a sign of “business as usual”?

So can you point to specific wrongdoing that actually makes sense, or are you simply assuming he’s a corrupt shitheel and mining for naughty sounding facts to support your thesis?

Nobody said as much - but I think there was a general consensus that an explanation of why it was being done would be helpful.

What is the reason that hiring a corporate lobbyist might be a bad idea? And wouldn’t that reason extend to groups like La Raza? If no, why not?

I think that attempting to draw some distinction is pretty lame. Also, a question: are groups like La Raza corporations? Specifically non-profit corporations?

There are lobbyists and then there are lobbyists. One of the lobbyists with a waiver was a Lobbyist for the Keep Kids off Tobacco Lobby. I doubt that would DQ him from government on a conflict of interest charge. The Raetheon Guy should not be let in. The military/industrial complex problem is too big to ignore.

See post #60 and subsequent discussion.

Quite right, I apologize, I’m sorry you brought it up.

I completely agree with you (and I don’t think that is a very common occurrence!:)). At the very least, Obama needs to come completely clean on this and unambiguously admit that he IS in fact reneging on a campaign promise, and also explain WHY he is doing so, and why it is so damn necessary to appoint these particular people (if it indeed is).

Why not? There are numerous interests at work in our society, aren’t there? Aren’t there farms growing tobacco and companies making cigarettes at the same time groups like this do their work?

Now, these companies and farmers and the like might have an interest in what goes on in HHS, wouldn’t you agree? Which is why this gentleman won’t be working on tobacco issues, supposedly. All well and good, but again a severe bending of the original promise - which was that he wouldn’t work in the area of government he lobbied in at all.

Whenever I hear it, I can’t help but to hear it in this context:

[Rev. Peter Shayne]

“How long Lord? Shalt thou be angry forever? Shall they jealously burn like fire? Shall we keep on fucking and pissing in each other’s faces? Behold this wicked woman; she falls, she mends, she crawls, she bends; she sucks it, fucks it, picks it up and licks it!”

[/Rev. Peter Shayne]

Well, no - he started by saying he would not do something, and then immediately proceeded to do it. You can call that clarification if you like, but it seems an abuse of the term.

No, not in the least - that’s the point. He made a promise during the campaign (that had nothing to do with the economy, and should not have been nullified by the recession), reinforced that with an executive order, and within days was acting in direct contradiction of his executive order. Contradiction isn’t consistency any more than it is clarification.

That doesn’t address the issue - if Obama didn’t mean it, why did he say it (and reinforce it with an executive order)?

I didn’t hear Obama making the kind of exceptions for McCain that he makes for himself -

Cite.

No, I was assuming he meant what he said. I find that, within a few days of his inauguration, he didn’t mean it very much, and isn’t going to be bound by it. So I was asking if he was going to be expected to keep any of his other promises, and, if so, which ones.

Regards,
Shodan

The clarification occured before the election, shortly after he made the comment in question. When prodded by a reporter, he clarified that the thrust of his comment was meant to be that lobbyists “wouldn’t dominate” in his white house.

“Lobbyists won’t dominate” is hardly a plausible “clarification” of “They won’t find a job,” I’ll grant that. But we can see, at least, that he directly implied before the election that the earlier statement is not in effect.

Doesn’t the executive order contain a provision for waivers? (Maybe not, but I thought it did.)

Aren’t we down to for former lobbyists in Obama’s white house now? That hardly seems like a White House “being run by Washington Lobbyists.”

Do you see any evidence that Obama has employed former lobbyists “as a tool to enrich friends” or to enrich the lobbyists themselves?

-FrL-

Ah, okay. For you, it’s not about the overall picture, whether or not he’s putting the government up for auction, or making its function transparent. It’s just about thrashing around hoping to find a tu quoque point to score on some anonymous message board.

Okay, you can have it, with our “regards” too. Congratulations.

I believe the stance of HHS would be anti tobacco for kids. He would fit in fine.
Do you think Tobacco Companies and tobacco states are for kids using tobacco? Who is his lobby in conflict with?

You know, I’m reminded of an incident from 68 years ago that was repeatedly brought out in books on WWII, American history of the time, Roosevelt’s presidency, etc. In 1940, much of Europe was at war; the U.S. was neutral and large parts of the citizenry suspected their political opposition of trying to edge us into the European war. FDR, supporting the U.K. morally and economically, was repeatedly questioned by Republicans as to whether he was trying to send our boys off to die on foreign shores. He repeatedly promised the American public in speeches that we would not get into war – in the sense of American troops being sent to fight; even many isolationists saw the moral virtue in helping Britain and France against Hitler by sales of armaments and such – unless we were attacked. Given the recent history of the time, this was a reasonable caveat. Exactly once did he forget to attach that caveat, in a speech in Boston, and a certain nitpicky subset of Republicans attacked him for breaking that promise after Pearl Harbor. (To do the GOP credit, the larger part of the party which had opposed FDR but knew damn well that the Japanese attack changed things, and pointedly ignored, denounced, or distanced themselves froim the first subset.)

Rightly or wrongly, there was a widespread view that the Bush43 administration was in the pocket of, or in bed with, major corporations, particularly those in which its leaders had formerly been in top management positions. (And let us not hijack this thread with that debate – I’m stating, as what I believe is a perceived fact, that there was such a widespread view – if you want ot debate whether that view had validity, go somewhere else and do so.)

Now, Obama’s promise was, as I see it, at least partially in reaction to that. Haliburton and Exxon-Mobil would not dictate policy to an Obama Administration! Hence the point about corporate lobbyists in the Spartanburg speech. And of course when Obama’s actual policy statement is promulgated, it does allow for exceptions where it benefits the common good to allow this guy, with admitted expertise, to help in policy area X when he has been supporting himself as lobbyist for area Y. (My personal hunch is that former President Carter warned Mr. Obama of the dangers of New Broom Syndrome – having nobody on staff who knows “who did what with whom, and when and where and why” inside the Beltway.)

I’m not out to defend Mr. Obama’s choices in naming former corporate lobbyists to specific positions. I don’t know either the men or the jobs that well, if at all. What I see is that he stated a broadly expressed general principle, for good reason IMO, defined when and how he’d make specific exceptions to it (also a good idea; there are few broad-brush statements that do not admit of unjust impacts on a few specific situations, and allowing for exceptions to the broad brush in those situations is the mark of a realistic statesman.) – Now given all that, Bricker has nailed down what at first looked like a good-sized laundry list but got pared down to four specific exceptions. They may in fact not be good choices; I don’t know. What I do know is that Mr. Obama seems to be following his stated process – not a campaign-promise sound bite, but the specific, nuanced program that says, in effect, “No corporate lobbyists, avoid revolving-door employment, two years gap, allowing specific exceptions by waiver for specific needs.”

This hardly seems like the sort of thing to constitute a Great Debate. Indeed, while a fair question to be asked and answered, when finally sorted out it barely rises to the level of a Petty Nitpick.