# Lobsang, you miserable, judgmental lump of shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 1, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331 "2003-05-01T06:55:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/61 "2003-05-01T23:35:27Z")
Shodan, I understand what you’re saying, but there’s two sides to every coin. Parenthood may not be a negative experience to you. Parenthood IS a negative experience to me. Everything about it is negative, that’s why I don’t wish to do it. I think it’s the perspective from which you are viewing it. I assume (corrrect me if you’re wrong) that you’re thinking of all the positive aspects of parenthood, and then thinking that someone else thinking it is all negative is misinformed. The problem lies in what constitutes a negative experience. For you, weighing up the pros and cons, you might decide it is an overall positive experience. For others, a different answer will arise with exatcly the same pros and cons. For still more, there’s no need to weigh anything as the answer is crystal clear to them and not even questionable. It has nothing to do with fighting ignorance. You (general you) may as well try to fight ignorance over any other personal preference. It doesn’t make sense. As to what I thought of the OP and the language in it, see my first post in that thread. I do think if someone had a problem with the OP, a Pit thread is the standard response, with a link in the original thread being helpful. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/62 "2003-05-01T23:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Come on Spoofe…and I’ve known lots of husbands that are lying cheating fucking idiots. That doesn’t mean I refer to husbands in general that way and think people won’t get offended. I’ve known lots of kids I didn’t like, but calling them “yardmonkeys” as a collective term and not expecting people to be pissed is just ridiculous. Oh, I don’t disagree. I’m just pointing out that someone that’s only had experience with the “yardmonkey” variety of child is going to have a bit of an understandable bias. Hell, I was a yard monkey myself, once. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/63 "2003-05-02T00:32:54Z")
Spoofe: WAS??? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/64 "2003-05-02T01:25:18Z")
This thread looks to be winding up, but I’ll quickly reply to a response made to me. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bill H. \* > **First off, that’s almost out of context. > It was prefaced with a note that he did not enjoy children being referred to as “burdens” or “little snot-nosed yard apes” as had been assessed by others. Also, he posted immediately after a quote of what he meant by selfish, and frankly it’s not an invalid point** First, you could try rereading the thread. In NO PLACE until **Lobsang** took his dump on the carpet did anyone refer to “burdens”. Your use of “referred to” and quotation marks around “burdens” serves to misrepresent the positions taken. As for the quote, again, it simply wasn’t the place for it. As **Czarcasm** has noted, both in the original thread and this one, this wasn’t a debate. So when you ask > [@](#): > > \*\*uh, what exactly did Lobsang say that qualified as a “big ole dump on your nice carpet”? \*\* (which was what I replied to), I think we’re pretty clear what the answer is. A note in the original thread to a Pit thread was the correct thing to do. On snot-nosed yard apes: > [@](#): > > \*\*As a nice refreshing break from the comments that we will have “empty, selfish” lives without little snot-nosed yard apes running around (or children, for that matter) \*\*See, this is called a joke. The immediately following “or children, for that matter” in brackets should indicate to the reasonable reader that it was meant WRYLY. BTW, kudos for apologising, **Lobsang**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/65 "2003-05-02T02:30:46Z")
Just admit the truth…the reason most of y’all who don’t have kids are childless is BECAUSE you can’t get laid…😃 Enough already, **Lobs** been around long enough for y’all to know he’s not an asshat or a lump of shit or whatever. Although I have seen him miserable in a thread or two. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/66 "2003-05-02T02:54:09Z")
Right-O, **tkeela**. 🙂 **Diane**.You.Are.The.Shit.PERIOD. I did post in the originial OP. The whole ‘yard monkey’ thing was disrespectful. Plain and simple, black and white. It actually punctuated ignorance and underscored a need to make oneself feel better about not participating in parenthood. At one point in the OP, it was obvious that someone was VISIBLY trying to feel better by taking the ‘no kids’ stance. I just found the thread laughable because so many of you without children make these broad assumptions that are so far from the mark. I read several references to “I get to enjoy my expensive toys”. AND?! Like parents don’t have expensive toys? News flash: THE ONLY PARENTS WHO FEEL THAT SOMETHING HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM OR RESTRICTED AS A RESULT OF HAVING A KID(S) IS SOMEONE WHO LACKS A MINOR LEVEL OF INGENUITY. I do believe that people should make responsible choices and NOT have children if that’s their choice or lot. But to make the generalizations that some of you made is so ridiculous that I was shocked into amusement. And, **SPOOFE** : [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sub-human](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sub-human) Sub-human? What were you thinking? ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/67 "2003-05-02T03:00:38Z")
Right-O, **tkeela**. 🙂 **Diane**.You.Are.The.Shit.PERIOD. I did post in the originial OP. The whole ‘yard monkey’ thing was disrespectful. Plain and simple, black and white. It actually punctuated ignorance and underscored a need to make oneself feel better about not participating in parenthood. At one point in the OP, it was obvious that someone was VISIBLY trying to feel better by taking the ‘no kids’ stance. I just found the thread laughable because so many of you without children make these broad assumptions that are so far from the mark. I read several references to “I get to enjoy my expensive toys”. AND?! Like parents don’t have expensive toys? News flash: THE ONLY PARENTS WHO FEEL THAT SOMETHING HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM OR RESTRICTED AS A RESULT OF HAVING A KID(S) IS SOMEONE WHO LACKS A MINOR LEVEL OF INGENUITY. I do believe that people should make responsible choices and NOT have children if that’s their choice or lot. But to make the generalizations that some of you made is so ridiculous that I was shocked into amusement. And, **SPOOFE** : [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sub-human](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sub-human) Sub-human? What were you thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/68 "2003-05-02T03:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > But do NOT get all blustery and surprised when you refer to children as “snivelling brats” or whatever, and someone gets pissed about it. I have a kid. I don’t consider him a snivelling brat, and get very upset when other people refer to him that way. I don’t know about you, but I can personally attest that my three baby brother and sisters, god bless them, are snivelling brats. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/69 "2003-05-02T04:14:29Z")
The thread started as a place for childfree people to share like opinions. It is ending as a bullshit train wreck. Many of you who take offense to things like sniveling snot wads or yard apes (paraphrased) are the same people who call drivers morons, or service workers lame fucks, blah blah…Oh, but if you perceive little junior is getting ragged, you must shit on the OP. The thread was not started to fuck with parents!! But of course somebody with a kid had to jump in and say “Screw you, don’t fuck with me because I have kids, you are an asshole” Get fucking real. The OP was simply expousing the benefits of a lifestyle they enjoy. You militant parents sent it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/70 "2003-05-02T04:16:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted bt Mtgman_ > I have no axe to grind in the childfree arena. What I am interested in is the rule from Czarcasm that seems to imply that if we see someone being derisive towards groups of people and we believe that derision to be founded in ignorance(overgeneralized stereotypes and poor impressions of parental realities in this case. Although some have chalked this up to humorous hyperbole, certainly careful consideration will lead them to acknowledge that having parenthood as an institution derided might offend some parents.) we should open a new thread in the pit to combat it. After reading the first few posts in that thread I was thinking “You know, this thread needs some perspective. Parenthood isn’t the constant mindless drudgery or slavery to children and their needs that it is being represented as here.” I fail to see why that message, stated politely(which is where Lobsang fell down), would be inappropriate or why I would need to start a new thread to make such a request. IANAMod, obviously, but the way I see it, there are some forums that are “debate” forums, and there are some that aren’t. Questions on Columns, GD, the Pit, and most of Cafe Society\* are debate threads: posting an opinion in these threads is an invitation for someone to disagree. If you don’t want and argument, stay out of these forums. The other forums aren’t debate forums, although some threads in them are written so as to encourage debate. But IMHO and MPSIMS are places where you can say things without having to defend your views or have people jump your shit because they disagree with you. If you see something in these threads that simply demands a reply, start a related thread in the appropriate forum. Maybe link to it in the original thread, if you want those particular people’s opinions. In this case, you could have just started a new IMHO thread with a more balanced approach, or even one skewed in the opposite direction. \*I said “most” of Cafe society, because some threads specifically _don’t_ want debate. “I think Harry Potter is the bestest thing ever!” and that sort of thing. I think it’s bad manners to pop into a thread like that just to say, “Harry Potter sucks!” > [@](#): > > Why can’t we, politely, issue some criticism if a “conversation” is turning into a rant-fest? Would you prefer all such posts be reported to moderators? Would you prefer all such posts generate pit threads? I was under the impression that pit threads between posters were a major source of headaches for the staff and a polite disagreement with a premise in the OP could be handled in the thread without starting something like this thread. Well, so it’s turning into a rant-fest. So what? The IMHO thread is a “conversation,” but it’s one created specifically for certain people, in this case the childless. IMHO is not the place for unsolicited disagreemnt, even politely. In these forums, there’s no requirement that threads present balanced views. If you don’t like the views in the thread, don’t read it. If you feel they’re really so intolerable, start a pit thread about it. Otherwise, just ignore it. Like I said, I’m not a mod, and that doesn’t reflect any mods opinions, so far as I know. That’s just my observations about the unspoken ettiquette about this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/71 "2003-05-02T04:19:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Klaatu \* > \*\*The thread started as a place for childfree people to share like opinions. > > It is ending as a bullshit train wreck. > > Many of you who take offense to things like sniveling snot wads or yard apes (paraphrased) are the same people who call drivers morons, or service workers lame fucks, blah blah…Oh, but if you perceive little junior is getting ragged, you must shit on the OP. > > The thread was not started to fuck with parents!! But of course somebody with a kid had to jump in and say “Screw you, don’t fuck with me because I have kids, you are an asshole” > > Get fucking real. The OP was simply expousing the benefits of a lifestyle they enjoy. You militant parents sent it to the Pit. \*\* :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/72 "2003-05-02T04:22:15Z")
Perhaps you something to offer other than lame smileys? If you want to flame my ass have at it. ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/73 "2003-05-02T04:24:51Z")
I honestly don’t have any desire to flame you. I just find the thought of myself as a militant parent laughable. Again with the generalizations. Were you referring to ALL parents in this thread when you typed that or not? ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/74 "2003-05-02T04:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*I, for one, do feel that children are sub-human. > > You may, however, launch into whatever tirade you feel against me. \*\* Do you have children Spoofe? ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/75 "2003-05-02T04:27:06Z")
Well. if you read your own posts, maybe we can agree that generalizations suck. I’m easy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DEVA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@DEVA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DEVA)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/76 "2003-05-02T04:30:09Z")
You’re EASY?! Oh, BEE-HAVE! Did you just use a SMILEY???!!! It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/77 "2003-05-02T04:31:26Z")
It’s selfish to NOT have kids? Good grief!!! I’m stunned (almost, but not quite, sorry 😉 ) to silence with that statement. Not all people are cut out to be proper parents, and HUGE KUDOS should be given to those intelligent and NON-selfish enough to realize that. What IS selfish is the idiots, who have children because: babies are so cute they want someone to love THEM that’s what you do, you go to college, get married, have kids and many more idiot reasons that are NOT child-friendly… Too many kids born under those circumstances are treated in ways ranging from being just afterthoughts to someone’s life, to downright abuse to being murdered. I AM a parent, a pretty decent one to hear my kids tell it (and one of them is full-grown and married), and I fully applaud those whose choice is child-free. How DARE some idiot attempt to dictate what someone else’s reproduction level should be!! Oh GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, I can’t even think of anything bad enough to say to them!!! [Gilda Radner]Oh, I’m SPITTIN’ mad[/Gilda Radner] ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/78 "2003-05-02T04:40:34Z")
Dammit, I did use a smiley. I must go flog myself…\ I _am_ easy though. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/79 "2003-05-02T04:54:01Z")
No-one ever said a person is selfish because they don’t want children. It was the **reasons** given for not wanting children that were debated as selfish. And no-one is dictating anything. I cannot stress that enough **CanvasShoes** Why did _you_ have children? Oh and I think the reasons given for _wanting_ children are usually made up ways of expressing the fact -\* They just want children\*, they don’t know why. (Maybe not in all cases) Having children is rewarding, it is hard work. Some people want to put the work in to give another person a life. Why do all the anti-have-children people assume that all pro-have-children people are asshats who will abuse and neglet them? It baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331/80 "2003-05-02T04:57:54Z")
Oh and FTR I am ashamed of myself for being so careless as to call all people who don’t want children selfish. I thought I was more specific than that, but If I wasn’t I am sorry. I didn’t mean to say that because I don’t think it. I was annoyed at a comment that I now see was a joke, but still not nice. **I do not think all people who don’t want children are selfish.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lobsang-you-miserable-judgmental-lump-of-shit/172331.md?page=5)