# Local NAACP Leader Fabricates Black Ethnicity **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357 "2015-06-12T13:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/121 "2015-06-14T10:56:13Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Are you arguing this because you think ethnicity disphoria could be a real thing, or because you think gender disphoria _isn’t_? I think that both are real things. What I question is whether the answer is to “become” what you think you are. Especially given that the best outcome is one in which you still aren’t quite what you want to be. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/122 "2015-06-14T10:59:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > This is a strange story but it is interesting to see the real faces something > > It is quite interesting you automatically invent the idea automatically that the science around this must be biased and invent also out of thin air the idea of scientists being coerced - contra you simply admitting you know nothing of the subject. > > it says a great deal. About your thinking and bias, not about the science. Well, for starters, I’d like to see a cite that it is now scientific consensus that the best way to deal with gender disphoria is to start giving people some pretty serious drugs and start cutting them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/123 "2015-06-14T11:31:52Z")
maybe you should start by learning rather than making the wild and obviously politically motivated accusations, yes? And then maybe not use the prejudiced and charged language. We can all see under the pretenses. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/124 "2015-06-14T12:02:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I think that both are real things. What I question is whether the answer is to “become” what you think you are. Especially given that the best outcome is one in which you still aren’t quite what you want to be. Nobody is probably exactly quite what they would like to be. Falling short of perfection is not a reason to stay where (or what) you are. I think it’s great to be concerned about the wellbeing of trans-whatever people and the risks they face if they try to transform themselves, but who, other than themselves, should decide whether they are happier before or after? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/125 "2015-06-14T13:31:11Z")
We agree on that completely. They have the right to live as they wish. I feel the same way about drug users. Does not mean I’m going to endorse their choice as necessarily good for them. I’d feel differently if they could actually be transformed rather than ending up a Frankenstein creation. At least this lady was able to just make a few cosmetic changes and be wholly accepted as black. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/126 "2015-06-14T15:20:24Z")
I don’t feel like my endorsement is necessary or solicited, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/127 "2015-06-14T16:00:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d feel differently if they could actually be transformed rather than ending up a Frankenstein creation. …“Frankenstein creation”? Could you explain this, please? Do you mean those who undergo sex reassignment surgery end up as “Frankenstein creations?” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/128 "2015-06-14T16:10:55Z")
I was wondering about her brothers’ and sister’s position on all this, and I found an article that talks about what kind of upbringing Rachel had. While the article makes much about the YEC roots her family has, I was more curious about the brother who is estranged from the family, and how that ties in to her story. > **[Rachel Dolezal’s Creationist Parents: ‘Jesus Christ Is The Witness On My...](https://reverbpress.com/religion/rachel-dolezal-young-earth-creationist-parents/)** > > As we shake our damn heads over the spectacle of Rachel Dolezal getting outed as a white woman and try to make ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/129 "2015-06-14T16:49:03Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > …“Frankenstein creation”? Could you explain this, please? Do you mean those who undergo sex reassignment surgery end up as “Frankenstein creations?” I’d like to know that as well. That code phrase is typically only used by the people on this message board who either hate or are terrified of transgender people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/130 "2015-06-14T17:47:06Z")
Only pointing out that what emerges from surgery is not truly male or female, but something in between. It’s interesting that many criticize plastic surgery to make people feel better about their appearance, but the far more radical multiple surgeries needed to get a person of one sex a little bit closer to being the other sex are see as a standard treatment for gender disphoria. Bruce Jenner has already had a lot of work done and he’s still nowhere near female biologically. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/131 "2015-06-14T17:54:46Z")
Not to mention objecting to the terminology without disputing its accuracy isn’t really in the realm of ignorance fighting. And I still haven’t seen a cite that there is scientific consensus that the best way to treat gender disphoria is to transform a person from their birth sex to something in between their birth sex and their desired sex. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/132 "2015-06-14T19:42:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Only pointing out that what emerges from surgery is not truly male or female, but something in between. Whatever the “intent”, you are doing it in the most insulting way possible. Go ahead and call me “Frankenstein.” I dare you. I double dare you. > [@](#): > > It’s interesting that many criticize plastic surgery to make people feel better about their appearance, but the far more radical multiple surgeries needed to get a person of one sex a little bit closer to being the other sex are see as a standard treatment for gender disphoria. It’s only “interesting” to you because you are ignorant on this subject. > [@adaher](#): > > And I still haven’t seen a cite that there is scientific consensus that the best way to treat gender disphoria is to transform a person from their birth sex to something in between their birth sex and their desired sex. Such was provided up above. I have a page listing my search of the studies over the last 11 years. I reviewed more than 350 technical papers to come to that conclusion. That’s my legwork; what’s yours? ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Wormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Marion\_Wormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Wormer)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/133 "2015-06-14T21:19:51Z")
Those who think that someone can’t be Black and be blond need to look at [Walter Francis White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White)of the NAACP. He investigated lynches in the South by ‘passing’ as white, even though he identified as Black and was considered Black by standards of the day. I don’t know what the NAACP thinks about the Rachel Dolzeal issue, but a blonde person identifying as Black isn’t something they haven’t seen before. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/134 "2015-06-14T21:51:27Z")
**adaher** Your use of “frankenstein creation” to describe transgender people who have had surgery is bordering on trolling. Everyone involved: This hijack about the transgender experience and its comparison to the subject of the OP needs to end. Take it to another thread. Enough. > [@adaher](#): > > We agree on that completely. They have the right to live as they wish. I feel the same way about drug users. Does not mean I’m going to endorse their choice as necessarily good for them. I’d feel differently if they could actually be transformed rather than ending up a Frankenstein creation. > > At least this lady was able to just make a few cosmetic changes and be wholly accepted as black. > [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’d like to know that as well. That code phrase is typically only used by the people on this message board who either hate or are terrified of transgender people. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/135 "2015-06-14T21:53:17Z")
nm – it would just continue the derail ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/136 "2015-06-14T22:00:40Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > Those who think that someone can’t be Black and be blond need to look at [Walter Francis White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White)of the NAACP. He investigated lynches in the South by ‘passing’ as white, even though he identified as Black and was considered Black by standards of the day. > > I don’t know what the NAACP thinks about the Rachel Dolzeal issue, but a blonde person identifying as Black isn’t something they haven’t seen before. True. It’s not a Stupidly Obvious thing as some people would like to think. And as others had said, had she been truthful about her background she could have participated as a committed ally anyway. OTOH if she had a problem with the notion that she would always be seen as “different” by those she wants to belong with, that was the wrong way to try and get around it. You don’t deny where you came from, you work with where you came from and use the tools that gave you to further the cause of liberation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/137 "2015-06-14T22:08:11Z")
> [@Marion\_Wormer](#): > > Those who think that someone can’t be Black and be blond need to look at [Walter Francis White](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Francis_White)of the NAACP. He investigated lynches in the South by ‘passing’ as white, even though he identified as Black and was considered Black by standards of the day. > > I don’t know what the NAACP thinks about the Rachel Dolzeal issue, but a blonde person identifying as Black isn’t something they haven’t seen before. Some of the founding members of the NAACP were white. I don’t think Rachel Dolezal and Walter White should be compared at all. Walter White frequently used his white phenotype for the benefit of black people, since he recognized that having a black consciousness isn’t about what you do to your hair or your skin. He put his life on the line by doing this, too. That took real guts. Rachel, however, has just shown real nerve. A lot of folks and myself would liken Rachel to another side of history–that of white women fetishizing black culture so that they can exert power and influence over black lives. She’s more of a [Miss Anne](http://involuntaryadult.tumblr.com/post/121367902498/on-rachel-dolezal) than a courageous Walter White. I find her more hilarious than offensive, but those lies about her South African experience is all kinds of WTF. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/138 "2015-06-15T04:04:57Z")
A Hispanic former student of Rachel Dolezal says that Dolezal would not let her participate in a class Q&A about being Hispanic because, according to Dolezal, the student didn’t “[look Hispanic enough](http://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/rachel-dolezal-once-told-a-student-she-did-not-look-hispanic#.ggW1pzvX8)”. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/139 "2015-06-15T11:33:32Z")
> [@astro](#): > > “Passing” as another race is something black people are very familiar with and somewhat sympathetic to as a means to get a leg up. I’m pretty sure that while she will be removed from committees etc over time, that black people’s judgment of her actions will be more understanding and sympathetic than white peoples. White progressives outraged _for_ blacks seem to be making the harshest comments so far. Black people are bemused and black women specifically are fascinated by her amazing hair styling skills, and conservatives are laughing their asses off and making Caitlyn Jenner comparisons. Nah. There’s plenty of black outrage without the bemusement or fascination for hair styling tips. Most of it has to do with her co-opting the struggle (see her artwork). I mean she described her hair as type 4 (probably 4a/b) and I mean, come the fuck on we all saw the before picture. I naturally have 3c 4a/b hair that I wear as a wash and go (wash once a week, cowash throughout the week) and do a somewhat LOC method for. I could ask her for help or I’d do what most natural black women do and google it. Her “skills” are ours after all. > [@monstro](#): > > Some of the founding members of the NAACP were white. > > I don’t think Rachel Dolezal and Walter White should be compared at all. Walter White frequently used his white phenotype for the benefit of black people, since he recognized that having a black consciousness isn’t about what you do to your hair or your skin. He put his life on the line by doing this, too. That took real guts. Rachel, however, has just shown real nerve. > > A lot of folks and myself would liken Rachel to another side of history–that of white women fetishizing black culture so that they can exert power and influence over black lives. She’s more of a [Miss Anne](http://involuntaryadult.tumblr.com/post/121367902498/on-rachel-dolezal) than a courageous Walter White. I find her more hilarious than offensive, but those lies about her South African experience is all kinds of WTF. I agree with this. I feel like she thought she was down and no one pressed her because it’s rather rude to ask how black someone is, so she got away with it. Some of the stuff she said on twitter was really something. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357/140 "2015-06-15T16:06:22Z")
Breaking news. Dolezal is stepping down from her position as Spokane NAACP president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-naacp-leader-fabricates-black-ethnicity/722357.md?page=8)