# Local paper after me for $ 30 for lapsed subscription. Do I owe this money? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673 "2016-03-01T19:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/61 "2016-03-03T04:30:55Z")
Once you click to “get started”, this is toward the bottom of the page > [@](#): > > Your subscription will continue and we will charge you at the then regular rate, less any applicable credits, unless you cancel, which you can do at any time. After the promotional period ends, your rate may increase. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/62 "2016-03-03T04:57:29Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Once you click to “get started”, this is toward the bottom of the page Got it. Thanks. So in the model is that the subscription goes on forever until I actively call them to cancel or (as in my case) the payment source dries up but they will still continue to deliver service in default for a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/63 "2016-03-03T05:12:34Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The paper is here > > [www.delmarvanow.com](http://www.delmarvanow.com) > > I had a digital only subscription. In poking around my now lapsed account there’s lots of messages for me to renew my lapsed subscription, but I can’t find word one about the specific terms and conditions of the subscription. I even went back to the email indicating my subscription had started in 2014 and there is nothing. Maybe there was some kind of notice when I actually enrolled but it did not stick around on the site. They only give an old fashioned telephone number for customer service quesions. How odd. As I suspected from looking at other sites, their [terms are similar:](https://subscribe.delmarvanow.com/subscribe/?productId=3731913&genesysSourceCode=W&gps-source=MBWARTICLE&&onSuccessRedirectTo=http%3A%2F%2Foffers.delmarvanow.com%2Fredi) > [@](#): > > Your subscription will continue and we will charge you at the then regular rate, less any applicable credits, unless you cancel, which you can do at any time. After the promotional period ends, your rate may increase I’d say you’re on the hook. Arrgh, ninja’d from an old page load. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/64 "2016-03-03T13:29:23Z")
I think it’s the paper’s hard luck, unless they specifically informed you that they were continuing delivery as a courtesy and expected you to acknowledge/decline their offer. This is the exact reason why I refuse any offers of something free for a limited time, like added movie channels to cable. The onus is on me to “cancel” the free item or I will be hounded for $$. No thanks, don’t do me any “favors”. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/65 "2016-03-03T13:42:55Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Again, that is not how newspaper delivery contracts work IME. Your _order_ is a separate thing from your _payment method_. If your CC is rejected, that’s just like your check bouncing. It doesn’t get you out of paying for your order. And newspaper delivery orders are like orders for trash pickup, or electrical service. Once they’re activated, they typically stay active until canceled. Here in the UK, I told a local shop (a newsagents) that I wanted them to deliver newspapers\* to me. They bill me monthly. If I want them to stop, I walk to the shop and tell them. The newspapers have nothing to do with the agreement. \*The Telegraph on Wednesday and the Guardian on Saturday. I like to see both sides… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/66 "2016-03-03T14:25:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > As I suspected from looking at other sites, their [terms are similar:](https://subscribe.delmarvanow.com/subscribe/?productId=3731913&genesysSourceCode=W&gps-source=MBWARTICLE&&onSuccessRedirectTo=http%3A%2F%2Foffers.delmarvanow.com%2Fredi) > I’d say you’re on the hook. They say they will “charge” you. That’s a different thing than “billing” you. Permission to charge is permission to use the provided means of payment to prepay (“charge it to my MasterCard”). Permission to bill is permission to provide payment after the fact (“Put this on Mr. Rockefeller’s bill”). Billing is basically a form of credit. Charging is just…paying for something. I let a bunch of companies charge things automatically, for both of our convenience. I let very, very few people bill me (as in, only utilities) bill me. Those companies that can bill me have ample protections built in- I can set a max automatic charge on my electric bill, set up payment plans, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/67 "2016-03-03T15:33:09Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > They say they will “charge” you. That’s a different thing than “billing” you. > > Permission to charge is permission to use the provided means of payment to prepay (“charge it to my MasterCard”). Permission to bill is permission to provide payment after the fact (“Put this on Mr. Rockefeller’s bill”). Billing is basically a form of credit. Charging is just…paying for something. Only if they charge after delivery. If they charge in advance, and the means of prepayment is declined, no one is forcing them to continue delivery. To do so without payment is their risk, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/68 "2016-03-03T15:42:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Only if they charge after delivery. If they charge in advance, and the means of prepayment is declined, no one is forcing them to continue delivery. To do so without payment is their risk, not mine. I’m sure it’d be a fine argument in court, but you’re up against the explicit T&Cs of the subscription. I wouldn’t hold much hope that a court is going to overthrow the predominant structure of subscription newspaper deliver nation-wide simply because of your argument. You may think you’re right, because your argument is logical, but that doesn’t win court cases. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/69 "2016-03-03T16:32:40Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > They say they will “charge” you. That’s a different thing than “billing” you. I’m not sure why you think there is a substantive difference between the two terms in this context. The terms say “charge you”. They are not literally running your body through their credit card reader, they are not subjecting you to electric shock. I think the meaning is clear. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Only if they charge after delivery. If they charge in advance, and the means of prepayment is declined, no one is forcing them to continue delivery. To do so without payment is their risk, not mine. This is not a valid argument. Look at the terms for the NY times. They specifically contemplate declined credit cards and state you’re still responsible for charges. The terms for this specific vendor state _“Your subscription will continue … unless you cancel”_. That’s pretty clear terms. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/70 "2016-03-03T17:07:53Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m not sure why you think there is a substantive difference between the two terms in this context. The terms say “charge you”. They are not literally running your body through their credit card reader, they are not subjecting you to electric shock. I think the meaning is clear. Because they are different things. If I go to the grocery store and put more in my cart than I can afford, it’s fine for everyone except whoever has to res helge. They can charge me for my groceries, but they can’t bill me for them. If I run my shower 24/7 and rack up a higher water bill than I can afford, I’m screwed. They bill me. It’s not about the word, it’s about the method of getting money. If you provide your means of payment beforehand and pay before the service is proceed, you are being charged. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673/71 "2016-03-03T17:13:14Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Because they are different things. I don’t think they are in this context. The grocery store analogy is not on point because there is no agreement in place controlling the interaction. In the newspaper example, there is. Because of that, we can look to the language of the actual agreement. When it says: > [@](#): > > Your subscription will continue … unless you cancel Do you think they are saying that the subscription will continue for free? That’s not a reasonable reading. If they used the word “bill” in place of “charge”, I do not think the meaning of the terms as written would change substantively. Are you saying you disagree with this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/local-paper-after-me-for-30-for-lapsed-subscription-do-i-owe-this-money/747673.md?page=3)