# Loch Ness Monster Is/Was a Plesiosaur? Does it still Exist in the Atlantic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809 "2019-01-15T17:20:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/41 "2019-01-17T08:08:14Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > An article in a Charleston, SC newspaper dated 3/15/1869 relates a finding while in St. Simon’s Bay Capt. Perry fell in with a “dead monster of the deep floating on the surface.” The carcass was 15 feet out of water and was about 30 feet long by 20 feet wide “with an alligator shaped head attached to the body by a neck about fifteen feet in length.” It was shaped like a tortoise. The article implied that it was a Kraken reborn, the description was more of a Plesiosaur. No-one has addressed this part of the OP yet, so maybe I should have a try. There have been many ‘long-necked sea-monster’ carcasses recovered from the sea or stranded on the shore; often they are tentatively identified as a ‘plesiosaur’ or ‘sea-serpent’ but when examined by experts they turn out to be decayed sharks or cetaceans. The gills or flesh around the neck rot away or are eaten by scavengers, leaving just the backbone and the skull on what appears to be a long neck. This one, for example, was a beluga whale. > **[doubtfulnews.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com](https://doubtfulnews.com/2015/06/russian-mystery-monster-carcass-busted/)** > > Contact with an owner of doubtfulnews.com domain name. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/42 "2019-01-17T08:10:39Z")
Ach! Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/43 "2019-01-17T08:20:49Z")
Actually there was a monster in Loch Ness, well ok sort of… [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36024638](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36024638) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/44 "2019-01-17T15:33:18Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Actually there was a monster in Loch Ness, well ok sort of… > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36024638](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-36024638) Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/45 "2019-01-17T20:50:43Z")
You dont have to travel to Scotland to look for pleisaurs. check out the following ones right here in the USA: [Norman](http://www.unknownexplorers.com/lakenormanmonster.php) From N. Carolina which is even more weird because lake Norman is man made. But this one is also interesting because sometimes radioactive waste has gotten released into the lake which might have created… [Champ](https://www.lakechamplainregion.com/heritage/champ) From New York. [HERE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lake_monsters) is a wiki of all “lake monsters”. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/46 "2019-01-17T23:01:18Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > An article in a Charleston, SC newspaper dated 3/15/1869 relates a finding while in St. Simon’s Bay Capt. Perry fell in with a “dead monster of the deep floating on the surface.” The carcass was 15 feet out of water and was about 30 feet long by 20 feet wide “with an alligator shaped head attached to the body by a neck about fifteen feet in length.” It was shaped like a tortoise. The article implied that it was a Kraken reborn, the description was more of a Plesiosaur. It was unanimously decided by European scientists that the Loch Ness Monster was actually one of the last Plesiosaurs on the planet. After the Great Flood, one may have been trapped in the deep waters of the Loch Ness. Who’s to say that 15 miles off the Atlantic shelf there still may be a pod that never surfaces from the deep? That area is very deep and the creature described and pictured is a factual deep water reptile from the dinosaur age, with an actual skeleton in a Japanese museum. That area lies in “the Bermuda Triangle” and was the search area for missing seagoing vessels over centuries. From the bones discovered, Plesiosaur was quite smaller, but perhaps they got larger having to live deeper due to ocean temps and pollution. Science fiction. A animal that size would need a food source and the loch doesn’t have many big fish in it. This is not to say there aren’t animals alive from millions of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/47 "2019-01-17T23:53:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > And how else would he get there? :dubious: > [@begbert2](#): > > I’m thinking catapult. I’d prefer to call it a pleisia-pult. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/48 "2019-01-18T03:55:56Z")
As many things there are that are ridiculous about the OPs post I have to play devil’s advocate. To everyone who’s stating millions of years of extinction, I present ; The Coelacanth Thought to be extinct for 66 million years before it’s discovery in 1938. Since then, many populations have been found around the world. Id still give a North Atlantic pod of plesiosaurs an extremely low likelyhood but the long extinct argument certainly is no deal breaker. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/49 "2019-01-18T05:17:58Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > Science fiction. A animal that size would need a food source and the loch doesn’t have many big fish in it. > > This is not to say there aren’t animals alive from millions of years ago. Actually there are lots of salmon, eel, pike, trout, and perhaps even sturgeon, and a big sturgeon could account for a sober “what the hell was \*that \*big thing I saw in the water?!” tale. They can get 20 feet long. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/50 "2019-01-18T06:03:53Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > To everyone who’s stating millions of years of extinction, I present ; > The Coelacanth > Thought to be extinct for 66 million years before it’s discovery in 1938. Re-read post #5. Their is huge, HUGE difference between a deep water fish that gets up a respectable 6’/200 lbs and a 40’ air-breathing apex predator. The first can go undiscovered for a long, long time due to habitat and habit. The second, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/51 "2019-01-18T06:27:04Z")
> [@Littleman](#): > > To everyone who’s stating millions of years of extinction, I present ; > The Coelacanth > Thought to be extinct for 66 million years before it’s discovery in 1938. And how was it discovered? With a body. How many Loch Ness Monster carcasses are there? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/52 "2019-01-18T06:28:50Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > No-one has addressed this part of the OP yet, so maybe I should have a try. There have been many ‘long-necked sea-monster’ carcasses recovered from the sea or stranded on the shore; often they are tentatively identified as a ‘plesiosaur’ or ‘sea-serpent’ but when examined by experts they turn out to be decayed sharks or cetaceans. The gills or flesh around the neck rot away or are eaten by scavengers, leaving just the backbone and the skull on what appears to be a long neck. > > This one, for example, was a beluga whale. > [doubtfulnews.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com](https://doubtfulnews.com/2015/06/russian-mystery-monster-carcass-busted/) You and APB ninja’d me. I was going to mention the same thing. If anyone wants a factual cite, I think Daniel Cohen mentioned this in his old book _A Modern Look at Monsters_. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/53 "2019-01-18T06:41:38Z")
We, as modern educated humans, do have an annoying habit of discounting reports from centuries ago with handwaving and much scoffing. That’s why movie ‘tidal’ waves don’t look like a tide at all, but real tidal waves do look like a tide coming in, but we couldn’t reconcile a ‘tidal’ as being able to cause the damage reported, so we invented massive tall waves, in direct contravention to what the ancients’ reported. Because we know better, right? Still, there’s probably no dinosaur in the loch. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/54 "2019-01-18T10:48:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Did any pilgrimages follow St Columba’s exorcism? Because hoaxes for the tourist dollar were a big thing back then. No one has addressed this question. The answer is probably no. One issue is whether the encounter happened at all. Adomnán in his _Vita Columbae_ might, you know, have been making stuff up. This was just the sort of story that hagiographies were expected to contain. So one doesn’t necessarily even need to suppose that there was any earlier local tradition. But perhaps more importantly, [the _Vita Columbae_ contains dozens of stories of Columba’s miracles](https://celt.ucc.ie//published/T201040/). Added to which there were lots of relics and other sites associated with Columba. So although a widespread cult did develop around his memory, there were plenty of other places for his devotees to focus on. The River Ness story only began to attract attention once it was linked to Nessie in the twentieth century. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/55 "2019-01-19T02:45:23Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > And how was it discovered? With a body. > > How many Loch Ness Monster carcasses are there? In 1937 I could have said the same. lol Just saying the argument of millions of years of extinction alone is kind of killed by the Coelacanth. There’s plenty of other good reasons to believe there are no pleisiasaurs though, and tons and tons of good reasons to believe there’s no Nessie. ---
**Author:** ![Littleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ccd318/32.png) [@Littleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Littleman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809/56 "2019-01-19T02:47:39Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Re-read post #5. Their is huge, HUGE difference between a deep water fish that gets up a respectable 6’/200 lbs and a 40’ air-breathing apex predator. The first can go undiscovered for a long, long time due to habitat and habit. The second, not so much. Agreed [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loch-ness-monster-is-was-a-plesiosaur-does-it-still-exist-in-the-atlantic/827809.md?page=2)