# Locomotives as emergency generators **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816 "2017-08-16T18:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/1 "2017-08-16T18:35:36Z")
Suppose we had a Blackout: some crisis has physically knocked out a power station and the City needs juice NOW! Could several Diesel/Electric locomotives be positioned on tracks near step-up/step-down sub-stations and splice the trains’ output directly to the grid? [https://www.google.com/search?q=step+up+station&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CUrfOzH6NVfbIjic-QJnHpJWh3IwR\_1fuU4K7BgXoZlk823s7P855UbdqVB3F3Z\_1FGzqeT5Q0ck2t0hvAb-owmpZzhCoSCZz5AmceklaHESfuZ\_1uSuhmiKhIJcjBH9-5TgrsRzqIOODBD9ekqEgkGBehmWTzbexEzZvPNNvLffCoSCTs\_1znlRt2pUEeOMhGaKcApnKhIJHcXdn8UbOp4RgchZG\_11JYgAqEglPlDRyTa3SGxGyVwdyQqsdLSoSCcBv6jCalnOEEasXw0uFipxE&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZtpewsdzVAhWBnBQKHbWxBJ4Q9C8IHw&biw=1920&bih=940&dpr=1](https://www.google.com/search?q=step+up+station&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CUrfOzH6NVfbIjic-QJnHpJWh3IwR_1fuU4K7BgXoZlk823s7P855UbdqVB3F3Z_1FGzqeT5Q0ck2t0hvAb-owmpZzhCoSCZz5AmceklaHESfuZ_1uSuhmiKhIJcjBH9-5TgrsRzqIOODBD9ekqEgkGBehmWTzbexEzZvPNNvLffCoSCTs_1znlRt2pUEeOMhGaKcApnKhIJHcXdn8UbOp4RgchZG_11JYgAqEglPlDRyTa3SGxGyVwdyQqsdLSoSCcBv6jCalnOEEasXw0uFipxE&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZtpewsdzVAhWBnBQKHbWxBJ4Q9C8IHw&biw=1920&bih=940&dpr=1) After all, a locomotive is in fact a mobile generator on wheels, right? ---
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/2 "2017-08-16T18:54:38Z")
I remember that when we had the ice storm in Eastern Ontario and Southern Quebec some years ago, I heard a news report that a locomotive had been used to provide power to a community, some where in Quebec I believe. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/3 "2017-08-16T18:59:36Z")
> [@J-P\_L](#): > > I remember that when we had the ice storm in Eastern Ontario and Southern Quebec some years ago, I heard a news report that a locomotive had been used to provide power to a community, some where in Quebec I believe. I wonder if they tried to synch with the utility’s frequency, or they were certain that utility power would not be connected while the train current was in use. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/4 "2017-08-16T18:59:56Z")
> [@J-P\_L](#): > > I remember that when we had the ice storm in Eastern Ontario and Southern Quebec some years ago, I heard a news report that a locomotive had been used to provide power to a community, some where in Quebec I believe. I remember that. [Wikipedia article:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLW_M-420) > [@](#): > > During the winter of 1998, a severe ice storm cut off power to many homes and businesses in Ontario and Quebec. CN M-420 3502 was hoisted off the rails by crane and rolled along a street in Boucherville QC in order to provide power in the community. The engine was driven approximately 1,000 feet (305 m) under its own power to the city hall, where it then became a portable power generator.[4] M-420 3508 was also lifted from the tracks to provide power to a school being used as a shelter, but problems prevented this from happening, and 3508 remained on standby. Both engines suffered minor gear case damage and carved grooves in the pavement. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/5 "2017-08-16T19:02:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder if they tried to synch with the utility’s frequency, or they were certain that utility power would not be connected while the train current was in use. [From a train form:](https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,409992) > [@](#): > > Correct regarding engine speed. To use a locomotive as an emergency generator, you have to run the engine at the correct speed to generate AC at commercial frequency (60 hertz or cycles per second on North America). With an EMD GP38-2, for example, instead of running the engine at “notch 8” “locomotive speed”, the engine would be operated at 720 RPM which would produce 60 hertz AC directly from the traction alternator. And that would be at a lower power output as well, probably around 1400 HP instead of the “notch 8” 2000 HP rating. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/6 "2017-08-16T19:04:03Z")
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**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/7 "2017-08-16T20:05:16Z")
[It’s been done with aircraft carriers](http://www.historylink.org/File/5113) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/8 "2017-08-16T20:17:42Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I remember that. > > [Wikipedia article:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLW_M-420) The engine was _**driven approximately 1,000 feet (305 m) under its own power**_ to the city hall, where it then became a portable power generator :eek: Wow. That would have been interesting to see. ---
**Author:** ![icbm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@icbm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icbm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/9 "2017-08-16T20:38:26Z")
There’s a plaque at the spot: [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/2263/2072067929_048957f29d_b.jpg "CN 3502 Commemorative Plaque in Boucherville") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/kellergraham/2072067929) “At the request of the mayor, Mrs. Francine Gadbois, CN locomotive 3502 powered the Boucherville Emergency Operations Centre during the January 1998 Ice Storm crisis.” Here’s CN putting it back on the rails: > **[Railpictures.ca - pierrefournier Photo: rerailing 3502 after having been...](http://www.railpictures.ca/main-page/rerailing-3502-after-having-been-lent-to-the-town-during-the-ice-storm-crisis-that-lasted-7-8-days-3)** > > Tens of thousands of great Canadian railway photographs, discussions, and much more. Click to view the image or register for your free account. Please share this if you like it. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/10 "2017-08-16T21:09:33Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > The engine was driven approximately 1,000 feet (305 m) under its own power to the city hall, I bet that made some engineer’s day. “I’ve always wanted to try this thing on a normal road…” ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/11 "2017-08-16T21:12:48Z")
Reminds me of one of my favorite books as a toddler - [“Tootle”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tootle) - a locomotive that was always heading into fields to sniff flowers and such despite being told to “stay on the tracks no matter what.” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/12 "2017-08-16T21:13:24Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The engine was _**driven approximately 1,000 feet (305 m) under its own power**_ to the city hall, where it then became a portable power generator > :eek: > > Wow. That would have been interesting to see. Look, Ma, no steering! ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/13 "2017-08-16T21:56:32Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > [From a train form:](https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,409992) Right, most North American locomotive alternators of that period, 60’s onward GM-EMD and General Electric (a Montreal Locomotive Works model was mentioned in another post, those used GE electrical components) were 10 pole, so produced 60 hz at 2\*3600/10=720 rpm but their engines ran at 900-1050 or so at full power depending. So to produce 60 hz they’d have to run at lower rpm and the loss in power might be more than proportional (if they couldn’t produce max torque at 720). Those locomotives were AC-DC, generated AC power rectified to DC to feed to their traction motors. Older 50’s vintage diesel loco’s were DC-DC and no use to provide power to an AC electric grid. Many newer diesel locomotives are AC-AC, with frequency converters to control motor speed by varying frequency independent of engine speed. I don’t know how many poles their generators have or whether you could practically take power from the output of the frequency converters (one for each set of wheels or even individual wheel) rather than the alternator for outside use. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/14 "2017-08-17T02:53:40Z")
Sorta similar, here’s a recent thread on electricity generation by airliner: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832816](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832816) Though this wasn’t addressed directly in that thread, it would be real difficult to tie a jet directly into the commercial grid system or any single building’s power supply since the normal aircraft power output is regulated to around 400 Hz, not 60. But there is a few hundred KW available for use if we can solve the various compatibility challenges. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/15 "2017-08-17T03:15:27Z")
I have a vague memory of sometime in the 1980s where Hawaii was hit by a typhoon and one of the islands has it’s power generating station knocked out. The US Navy helped out by having a nuclear submarine pull up and hook up to the grid until they could get things working again. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/16 "2017-08-17T03:44:26Z")
Cruise ships are little more than floating hotels with huge electrical generators. Some ports have power connections for what’s called “alternate marine power” or “cold ironing” where the ship plugs into the local power utility and the engines are shut down. A typical power connection for this is 12MW at 6600 volts with some truly massive plugs. There’s probably no major reason why the connection couldn’t be operated in reverse so a ship could provide power to a port and its local power grid. There would be a lot of wasted capacity due to the relatively low power rating of the shore power connection - the ship I was on recently for a vacation has a total of 64MW generating capacity if all six engines are running, so running one engine would get close to maxing out the shore power system. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/17 "2017-08-17T03:54:39Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > I have a vague memory of sometime in the 1980s where Hawaii was hit by a typhoon and one of the islands has it’s power generating station knocked out. The US Navy helped out by having a nuclear submarine pull up and hook up to the grid until they could get things working again. [This page](http://hawaiienergyoptions.blogspot.com/2009/02/no-to-nukes-part-2-debunking-urban-myth.html) says the idea was floated but never actually used: “Plans to use the nuclear submarine Indianapolis to provide power for Kauai were dropped after three portable generators arrived from California.” And [here’s a snopes forum discussion](http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=52136) on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/18 "2017-08-17T03:58:00Z")
I’m pretty sure it was done in New Orleans after Katrina. When they turned the Amtrak station into a detention center, they used a locomotive to supply power. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/19 "2017-08-17T04:07:32Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > I bet that made some engineer’s day. “I’ve always wanted to try this thing on a normal road…” A heck my grandfather did that in SF about the turn of the centry. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816/20 "2017-08-17T04:50:31Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Look, Ma, no steering! It’s easier if you put in into a drift. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/locomotives-as-emergency-generators/793816.md?page=2)