# Log Cabin Republicans Trash Obama's decision to support gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430 "2012-05-09T21:29:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/181 "2012-05-20T06:30:57Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Yeah, this whole Jesus thing. You’ve obviously listened to and internalized a lot of GOP propaganda about how Dems think he is the “Chosen One” or whatever. The sad part is that you’re the one asking him to do something literally impossible. You may as well stamp your feet and complain that he is failing to turn water into wine and multiply loaves and fishes. You keep coming back to this thing about how anyone who ever criticizes Obama must prefer Republicans. I’m not part of the Presidential horserace, that’s not my standard of evaluation here. You’re falling into rah rah, go team go, Young Democrat thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/182 "2012-05-20T06:34:26Z")
Here’s one real simple thing Obama could do: publicly endorse a federal recognition of gay marriage. Not institute it by fiat, or write the legislation for it, or press for a particular constitutional interpretation. Just say, “I think there should be a federal law granting gays the right to marriage.” That, at least, would be endorsing an actual change, and taking a position that might open him up to some sort of risk. It would also be leading, instead of following, which is all he’s doing now. Now, I don’t know that I would _want_ him to take a risk on this right now. Better to have a president who’s following, instead of sprinting in the opposite direction. But let’s not pretend he’s actually doing anything to _help_, here. Hell, he’s a [year behind mainstream opinion](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx) on the issue. Obama has spent virtually his entire political career disavowing gay marriage, but now that it’s the majority opinion, he’s jumping on the bandwagon. Fine. Glad to have him aboard. But please, stop pretending like he’s the guy driving the horses. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/183 "2012-05-20T06:37:15Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > You keep coming back to this thing about how anyone who ever criticizes Obama must prefer Republicans. I’m not part of the Presidential horserace, that’s not my standard of evaluation here. You’re falling into rah rah, go team go, Young Democrat thinking. I did not in any way say that you must prefer GOP candidates in that quote. I said that you had internalized this ridiculous “Obama voters think he is the messiah” propaganda. As you clearly did, since you were repeating it. Whether or not you want to admit it, that is propaganda that was thought up in GOP think tanks. And it’s been very useful for them. And it’s idiotic. And you accepted it, like any number of other Dem voters. You mischaracterized what I said when you claimed I thought you prefer Republicans. I don’t think you’re a grown-up, so I don’t expect an acknowledgment and an apology. But if you were a grown-up, you would give it. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/184 "2012-05-20T06:57:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Here’s one real simple thing Obama could do: publicly endorse a federal recognition of gay marriage. Not institute it by fiat, or write the legislation for it, or press for a particular constitutional interpretation. Just say, “I think there should be a federal law granting gays the right to marriage.” That, at least, would be endorsing an actual change, and taking a position that might open him up to some sort of risk. > > It would also be leading, instead of following, which is all he’s doing now. > > Now, I don’t know that I would _want_ him to take a risk on this right now. Better to have a president who’s following, instead of sprinting in the opposite direction. But let’s not pretend he’s actually doing anything to _help_, here. Hell, he’s a [year behind mainstream opinion](http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx) on the issue. Obama has spent virtually his entire political career disavowing gay marriage, but now that it’s the majority opinion, he’s jumping on the bandwagon. Fine. Glad to have him aboard. But please, stop pretending like he’s the guy driving the horses. So the president – the one who, according to Condescending Robot, I clearly think of as the messiah – is not driving the horses. Who the fuck wants a president who’s driving the horses? Yeah, I have late-night masturbation fantasies in which Dennis Kucinich is standing shortly before congress and conducting them like they’re an orchestra. Vice President Kirsten Gillibrand is standing beside him, totally ready for her run for president in 2016. And obviously the pegasi are there in the corner too. But since, as anyone who actually follows this issue is aware, this year actually shows LESS acceptance of marriage equality in the general public than last year according to polling data, I sure as fuck don’t want the president risking his position for a purely symbolic victory that does nothing. I want him playing his cards as smart as he can to ensure he’s still here to fight for us for the next four years So a president who’s smart enough to fight the battles that he can win, and actually gain us material victories, like the right to have our service in the armed forces recognized without our pretending to be straight, has done something special. A president who aimed for the perfect and lost the good would have done less for us. I appreciate what the president said. But I’m not dumb, and I’m aware of what he has already done for gay and bisexual people (I can’t claim he has done as much for trans people so I don’t want to state that he has necessarily won a victory for queer people.) It’s always right to ask for even more. But it’s stupid to act like he’s failed us by not delivering the impossible, as the idiot Robot has been demanding. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/185 "2012-05-22T07:31:58Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I’ve heard a LOT of lectures from brainless College Democrat types over the past two weeks to the effect that gay rights is a niche issue, gays aren’t really oppressed, this is a distraction from the economy, etc. “Lil Pluck”'s post is a perfect example of this mindset–little homophoic jab about gays throwing a “hissy fit” followed by "at some point maybe we will choose to grant you human rights, in our infinite largesse, but for now we need to focus on what’s “really important,” which is electing Democrats at all costs. When did I ever say, or even insinuate, that gays are not really oppressed? Please don’t put words in my mouth. Now, having said that, I can assure you that, as a black gay man, I am the target of WAY more bigotry and prejudice because I’m black than I am because I’m gay. And before you accuse me of playing the wheel-of-oppression game, I’m not; I’m just giving you my real-world experience, and many, many other black gays (especially black gay men) will tell you the same thing. Now, seeing as I’m Very Gay myself, my so-called jabs weren’t meant to be–nor were they, IMHO, actually–homophobic, but hey, maybe I’m a self-hating homosexual. When you figure it out, perhaps you’ll let me know. And no, my point most certainly was NOT that we should elect Democrats at all costs. My point was, the gays who insist on being so gravely dissapointed in Obama and how he so egregiously betrayed the gay community can either go to the polls and vote for the man who has, thus far, given the community more than any other president before him has (yes, even if it is only some of what we want), and who very well may have risked his re-election by coming out in support of marriage equality (yes, I understand that his announcement–not his support, because only an idiot really believes that he was “evolving” all of this time–was at least partly influenced by political considerations), or members of the gay community can throw a hissy-fit (yes, a hissy-fit), stay home, and allow the election to the presidency of the man who will (if not himself) allow his party to continue to enshrine their bigotry, and the gay community’s second-class status, into law. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/186 "2012-05-22T13:06:32Z")
I have expressed no opinion whatsoever on who gays or anyone else should vote for in the Presidential election. That is not what this is about. The fact that everyone immediately makes it about the “accept Obama exactly as he is or vote for Romney” false dichotomy just proves my point about Democrats being unable to see past the pennant-waving go team go horseshit. There are moral issues and issues of the ever popular “political reality” in play here that have nothing to do with the Presidential election, but it’s literally impossible to get some people to understand anything beyond “blue team good, red team bad.” And yes, it’s problematic to use homophobic language even if you are gay. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/187 "2012-05-22T21:36:56Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > And yes, it’s problematic to use homophobic language even if you are gay. I agree that using homophobic/racist/etc. language even if you’re gay/black/etc. can be, and usually is, problematic, to say the least, but since when is the term “hissy-fit” homophobic? Whenever I’ve heard the term, it has usually not been applied to homosexuals (and I, myself, have applied it to people other than homosexuals), but perhaps your experience is different. This is not to say that I’m not following your line of thinking, because I am, and I can certainly see where you’re coming from. I’m just saying that “hissy-fit” is not homophobic just because you say it is. Anyway, given your anger towards/disappointment with Obama and your attempts at minimizing the gains that the gay community has made during his presidency thus far, what is that YOU want to happen in November? Do you want him to lose, or do you want him to win? (And yes, I know that you haven’t expressed an opinion, but I am curious with respect to what you think the logical course of action based on your argument should be.) ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/188 "2012-05-22T22:09:52Z")
> [@Li\_l\_Pluck](#): > > Anyway, given your anger towards/disappointment with Obama and your attempts at minimizing the gains that the gay community has made during his presidency thus far, what is that YOU want to happen in November? Do you want him to lose, or do you want him to win? (And yes, I know that you haven’t expressed an opinion, but I am curious with respect to what you think the logical course of action based on your argument should be.) You keep proving my point! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/189 "2012-05-22T23:23:38Z")
> [@Condescending Robot](#): > > In what way does his position differ from any Republican calling to “let the people decide”? > [@Condescending Robot](#): > > I’ve heard a LOT of lectures from brainless College Democrat I do like your non-partisan analysis of this issue. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/190 "2012-05-22T23:34:14Z")
Partiphobia, the fear and dread that others may discover that one has actual political convictions. This is often accompanied by centromania, evidenced by an obsessive attachment to a centrism long since extinct. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/191 "2012-05-23T03:56:30Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > You keep proving my point! Dude, it was a simple question, but if being a (condescending) asshole helps you to sleep at night, I won’t get in your way. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/192 "2012-05-23T05:04:46Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The fact that everyone immediately makes it about the “accept Obama exactly as he is or vote for Romney” false dichotomy just proves my point about Democrats being unable to see past the pennant-waving go team go horseshit. There’s no “pennant-waving go team horseshit” in acknowledging the truth, which is this: History’s most pro-gay-rights president is in an election against a guy whose crazy flip-floppy record has the one cornerstone of always being anti-gay. And an anti-gay president would likely have serious, real-life, not-just-symbolic effects on actual gay and bi people in the USA. Complaining about the record of history’s most pro-gay-rights president seems foolish in the context in which we’re choosing between a president who will – at least judging by his first term – likely continue to work for our equality, and a president who definitely will work against it, as he has said over and over and over. I don’t understand why any gay person would complain about what Mr. Obama has done for people like us when the alternative is a guy whose track record includes assaulting gay kids and showing no remorse. It couldn’t be clearer. We’re seeing the best president in history on gay rights issues up against someone whose past makes it apparent that he’s literally worse than GWB in terms of repugnant opinions about our rights. Are you the local Log Cabin sleeper agent? If not, seriously, shut the fuck up and look at what’s actually at stake for once in your life. I’m the most rigidly pro-gay-rights person I know (and I know the competition, in some cases carnally), and I think it’s fucking irrational to complain about Mr. Obama’s record. If you think there’s an actual factual problem to be addressed, what the hell is it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/193 "2012-05-23T05:22:04Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > . . . sending the military in would be a direct violation of Posse Comitatus. . . . Eisenhower did it to enforce school integration. Is there any significant body of legal scholarship today saying that this was unconstitutional? (There may well be, but I’ve not been exposed to it yet.) I don’t think Obama should do such a thing…and I agree he would almost certainly be impeached…but also that he would almost certainly be acquitted in the impeachment trial. (I also think that this would be the “tipping point” that leads to every President being impeached…and acquitted…as a new and very silly American political tradition.) ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/194 "2012-05-23T05:31:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Eisenhower did it to enforce school integration. Is there any significant body of legal scholarship today saying that this was unconstitutional? (There may well be, but I’ve not been exposed to it yet.) > > I don’t think Obama should do such a thing…and I agree he would almost certainly be impeached…but also that he would almost certainly be acquitted in the impeachment trial. > > (I also think that this would be the “tipping point” that leads to every President being impeached…and acquitted…as a new and very silly American political tradition.) Okay, huh. I’m very much not a lawyer and so I’m limited to Wikipedia and its links on this point. I had thought that it was illegal to send members of the armed forces out into US territory to enforce the law, but it appears that it’s okay when ithey are enforcing Constitutional law. I honestly can’t see a Constitutional argument here, just a moral one. But I probably overstated my case. Nonetheless, if Obama did something like this, he’d be the first president forced out of office by impeachment before you could say “rimjob”. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/195 "2012-05-23T10:27:18Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > I don’t understand why any gay person would complain about what Mr. Obama has done for people like us when the alternative is 1. Yeah, no worship of the Messiah-President on your part, none at all. 2. The fact that Obama is better than Romney is not the only issue. No matter how many times I point out this obvious fact, you can’t get past it and you come back to it immediately, even within the same post where you deny falling into this sort of thinking. Over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/196 "2012-05-23T10:56:15Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > 1. Yeah, no worship of the Messiah-President on your part, none at all. How does that remotely follow from what **mister nyx** said? Is it not true that Obama has done more for gay people than any other president? How does acknowledging that equate to “worship”? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/197 "2012-05-23T11:50:15Z")
You’re not allowed to even question “Mr. Obama” at all! We’ve gone from “better than Romney therefore awesome” to “don’t complain about ANYTHING.” I thought we were well past the “Obama is the perfect realization of all my political desires” stuff from 2008 and well into the part where we have to agree that nobody ever was saying it or be branded a Republican sleeper agent, but aparently some are still in a time warp. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/198 "2012-05-23T11:53:18Z")
Hyperbole much? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/199 "2012-05-23T13:06:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Is it not true that Obama has done more for gay people than any other president? > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > You’re not allowed to even question “Mr. Obama” at all! We’ve gone from “better than Romney therefore awesome” to “don’t complain about ANYTHING.” “Better than anyone else so far” = “Don’t complain about ANYTHING”? Are you disputing Gyrate’s assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430/200 "2012-05-23T13:08:42Z")
Gyrate wasn’t the person my quoted remark was responding to. Are you dense? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-trash-obamas-decision-to-support-gay-marriage/621430.md?page=11)