# Log Cabin Republicans – What’s wrong with these Queens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879 "2002-11-15T16:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/1 "2002-11-15T16:43:45Z")
Log Cabin Republican (LCR) Political Director Mark Mead and his fellow gay Republicans must be living in some kind of dream-world. He seems to actually believe that their new Majority Leader Tom Delay cares what they think. “I think if he wants to be successful, they’re going to have to listen to all parts of the party, including us,” Mead said. Where is the evidence that this party is listening to him? Delay has a long history of anti-gay activity as well as problems understanding the concept of Civil Liberty for non-white, non-Christians. Let’s take a look. [ul] [li]Delay supported the Hefley Amendment which would have overturned President Clinton’s May 28, 1998 executive order banning workplace discrimination based on sexual orientation in federal jobs.[/li][li]Voted YES on DOMA.[/li] [li]Voted YES on banning human cloning, including medical research. (Jul 2001) [/li][li]Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001) [/li][li]Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000) [/li][li]Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999) [/li][li]Voted YES on Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China. (May 2000) [/li][li]Voted YES on Constitutional amendment prohibiting Flag Desecration. (Jul 2001) [/li][li]Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999) [/li] [li]Voted YES on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998) [/li][li]Voted NO on funding for alternative sentencing instead of more prisons. (Jun 2000) [/li] [li]Voted NO on maintaining right of habeus corpus in Death Penalty Appeals. (Mar 1996) [/li][li]Voted YES on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995) [/li][li]Voted NO on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994) [/li][/ul] Here’s some quotes from and about Delay: > [@](#): > > _from the November 15, 1999 edition of The Nation magazine._ > Now we have it–the answer to the problem of youth violence. Majority top gun Tom DeLay says, “Guns have little or nothing to do with juvenile violence”. The causes of youth violence, says DeLay, are daycare, the teaching of evolution, and “working mothers who take birth control pills.” > [@](#): > > \*from Salon Magazine, 2-4-99 \* > “I am very tired,” wrote Li Zhen Hua, a 29-year-old Chinese woman [who was working in a Saipan sweatshop] in a letter to a friend obtained by the weekly Dallas Observer. “I want to go back to my country but I can’t because we must keep [sic] two years … Very busy. So hard. Every day work up to 1:30. I’ve to work on Sunday. Too much to respond to your letters.”… > [snip] > “A free market success,” DeLay calls Saipan’s indentured worker system. > [@](#): > > Next thing we knew, he had hacked-off conservatives, liberals, and everybody in between by saying he had “a whole big file cabinet full” of federal judges he wanted to impeach because he had political disagreements with their decisions. (_Houston Chronicle, May 16, 1997_) That statement caused conservative editorial writers across the country to suggest that Tom DeLay needs to read the constitution. (_Houston Chronicle, July 6, 1998_) > [@](#): > > Not being one to pass up a good opportunity to keep his mouth shut, Tom came up with another wacky idea: he wants to order the FBI to investigate reporters who investigate members of Congress. (_New York Times, September 18, 1998_). I could go on, but I don’t think it necessary. This is the Lunatic that the Republican Party has elected as House Majority Leader. If this is the nutcase the general membership endorses, why do the LRC members think the party cares one whit about their opinion? Why should any of us think the Republican Party is interested in anything but Big Business and Rich, Straight, White Men? To me the election of Tom Delay tells more about the Republican Party than all the apologia Mead or the Republicans on this board can offer. [sub] **Sources** : [Issues 2002](http://www.issues2000.org/TX/Tom_DeLay.htm), [DeLaywatch.org](http://www.delaywatch.org/framespage.htm) and [Human Rights Campaign](http://www.hrc.org).[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/2 "2002-11-15T16:49:43Z")
Ok, so your real beef has nothing to do with the LCR, but rather your caricature of Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/3 "2002-11-15T16:57:59Z")
In your list of quotes and votes for Mr. DeLay, I failed to find even one that supported your assertion that Mr. DeLay has “…problems understanding the concept of Civil Liberty for non-white, non-Christians.” Please provide this evidence. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/4 "2002-11-15T17:01:08Z")
Gee, I guess two of those votes are anti-gay. So what’s the point of the rest of your anti-Republican screed? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/5 "2002-11-15T17:01:20Z")
Well, the LCR wants the party to also be interested in Rich, Gay, White, Men. But, seriously, what do you do if you’re gay and conservative? Hypothetically (and I’m not neccesarily talking about Mead here, because I don’t know his stances), what if you are gay and opposed to human cloning, opposed to partial birth abortion, opposed to letting minors cross state lines to get abortions, support trade normalization with China, are opposed to flag burning, against affirmative action, against alternative sentencing, and support the death penalty? In that case, the only difference you have with Delay, from the list above, is on gay issues, and admittedly, Delay isn’t all that great on those issues. But, you gotta dance with the one that brings you to the dance. How far do you think a national Republican organization is going to get in getting its issues heard by any of the Republicans in Congress if the first thing it does is publically criticize its party caucus’s choice for House Majority Leader? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/6 "2002-11-15T18:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > Well, the LCR wants the party to also be interested in Rich, Gay, White, Men. But, seriously, what do you do if you’re gay and conservative? The LCR point up the inherent problem with the way the two major parties have evolved - neither is ideologically consistent. Democrats (at least so far as their platform goes) think government should be interventionist in economics and _laissez-faire_ on social issues, and Republicans are the opposite. There is little room for folks who approach economic and social issues with the same attitude. So the choice becomes which issue you think is more important. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/7 "2002-11-15T18:46:32Z")
I’ll second to what **Captain Amazing** says. We live in a two-party system, for better or worse. If you work only with one party (i.e., Democrats), you are effectively shut out when that party is out of power. Especially now, when Republicans control both houses of Congress and the presidency. The Log Cabin Republicans are Republicans because they support 90% of the Republican platform and principles, and they are working to reform the remainder to make the Republican party more gay accepting, if not gay friendly. One example is that Log Cabin Republicans worked with Platform Committee Chairman Tommy Thompson before the 2000 Republican National Convention to remove anti-gay references from, and insert language on national AIDS policy to, the draft of the platform he presented to the committee. If you want a Republican Party that still harbors anti-gay members, by all means knock those who are working to reform the party. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/8 "2002-11-15T18:50:34Z")
I just read _Blinded by the Right_, by David Brock. Brock was a gay man who was an attack dog for the right wing. _Blinded by the Right_ details his growing understanding of his own self-loathing and internal homophobia. I certainly can’t speak for each individual member of the LCR, but I’m sure his account must resonate to some degree with a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/9 "2002-11-15T18:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > **But, seriously, what do you do if you’re gay and conservative?** Vote libertarian? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/10 "2002-11-15T19:01:28Z")
So if you have relations with members of the same sex you’re required to support… [list=a][li]Federal authority over individual state laws with regards to marriage?[_]Human cloning?[_]Spending my tax money on 3rd World population control?[_]Ripping fully developed infants from their mothers and shoving a scalpel into their brains because the couple wanted a boy?[_]Removing the rights of parents whose teenage daughters opt not to inform them they want to terminatea pregnancy[_]Wipe their ass with a symbol their fathers and grandfathers fought and died to defend[_]Turn a blind eye to reverse discrimination at universities[_]Be soft on crime[_]Be anti-death penalty[/list][/li]Count me _out_ ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/11 "2002-11-15T19:16:10Z")
This is America, one does not need to justify anti-Republican screeds to anyone outside the Justice Department. As for the Log Cabin Republicans, they are a fake gay rights group designed to be a cover (maybe “beard” is a more fit term) for the Republican party so that at least one “gay rights” group supports them. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/12 "2002-11-15T19:20:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnBckWLD \* > \*\*So if you have relations with members of the same sex you’re required to support… > > [list=a][li]Federal authority over individual state laws with regards to marriage?[_]Human cloning?[_]Spending my tax money on 3rd World population control?[_]Ripping fully developed infants from their mothers and shoving a scalpel into their brains because the couple wanted a boy?[_]Removing the rights of parents whose teenage daughters opt not to inform them they want to terminatea pregnancy[_]Wipe their ass with a symbol their fathers and grandfathers fought and died to defend[_]Turn a blind eye to reverse discrimination at universities[_]Be soft on crime[_]Be anti-death penalty[/list][/li]Count me _out_ \*\* Yeah. I see what you’re saying. Somebody better go and tell **Gobear** that he’s not gay. I fear it will be quite a shock, and he’s not likely to take it well, but let’s all try to be supportive until he’s been full de-outed. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/13 "2002-11-15T19:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The Log Cabin Republicans are Republicans because they support 90% of the Republican platform and principles, and they are working to reform the remainder to make the Republican party more gay accepting, if not gay friendly. That is the crux of this thread. Choosing DeLay as the House Majority Leader shows that the party is NOT becoming more gay accepting. It’s no caricature. DeLay is clearly anti-gay. By electing a rabid homophobe as Majority Leader, the Republican Party belies their claims to be a Big Tent party. [More evidence against Delay and Civil Liberties:](http://www.njdc.org/readNews.php?show=229&subcat=3) > [@](#): > > Washington, DC: Republican House Whip Tom DeLay (TX) came under fire today for his statements declaring that only Christianity offers “viable, reasonable, definitive” answers to philosophical questions. According to the Washington Post, DeLay, who will become the Republicans’ leader in the House next year, stated that G-d was “using him to promote ‘a biblical worldview’ in American politics.” DeLay spoke at a Baptist church in Pearland, Texas on April 12; a transcript of his remarks was released by Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. > > According to the transcript, DeLay stated, “Ladies and gentlemen, Christianity offers the only viable, reasonable, definitive answer to the questions of ‘Where did I come from?’ ‘Why am I here?’ ‘Where am I going?’ ‘Does life have any meaningful purpose?’…Only Christianity offers a way to understand that physical and moral border. Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world – only Christianity.” Nice list of strawmen there **JohnBckWLD**. I’ll only address one. [ul] [li]Federal authority over individual state laws with regards to marriage?[/li][/ul] So you have a problem with the Supreme Court’s decision in _Loving v. Virginia_? _On preview_ **gobear** is no Log Cabin Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/14 "2002-11-15T19:56:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I am Sparticus \* > \*\*This is America, one does not need to justify anti-Republican screeds to anyone outside the Justice Department. > > As for the Log Cabin Republicans, they are a fake gay rights group designed to be a cover (maybe “beard” is a more fit term) for the Republican party so that at least one “gay rights” group supports them. \*\* No, **I am Sparticus** , this is the _Great Debates_ forum. Anti-Republican screeds, like any proposition offered here, must be justified with verifiable facts and sound arguments supporting any inferences drawn from those facts. In addition to the OP’s unsupported claim that Mr. DeLay does not support civil rights for non-white, non-Christian Americans, we now have two unsupported claims from you. (I am, sadly, not particularly shocked at this development). What is your evidence that the [Log Cabin Republicans](http://www.lcr.org/) are a “fake gay rights group?” They have over forty chapters across the nation. An admittedly self-serving list of accomplishments for the group appears [here](http://www.lcr.org/timeline.asp'). They have a web page, downtown DC offices, and thousands of members nationwide. What’s the evidence they are fake, or that their desire for gay rights is fake? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/15 "2002-11-15T19:59:10Z")
**Homebrew** , your quote seems excellent evidence that DeLay is a Christian. It doesn’t remotely address the proposition that he feels non-Christians should be denied civil rights. Again: what is your evidence? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/16 "2002-11-15T20:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > By electing a rabid homophobe as Majority Leader, the Republican Party belies their claims to be a Big Tent party. A quick Google search for “gop big tent” reveals that people have been questioning the quality of the canvas forming the “GOP Big Tent” since at least 1995. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/17 "2002-11-15T20:04:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\* > That is the crux of this thread. Choosing DeLay as the House Majority Leader shows that the party is NOT becoming more gay accepting. It’s no caricature. DeLay is clearly anti-gay. By electing a rabid homophobe as Majority Leader, the Republican Party belies their claims to be a Big Tent party. \*\* Well, yeah, Delay is anti-gay, and, given their druthers, LCR probably wouldn’t have picked him, but, the House having picked them, what do you want LCR to do? Publicly denounce him? How will that get them anywhere, or make the Republican party more willing to listen to their positions? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/18 "2002-11-15T20:17:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\* Delay has a long history of anti-gay activity as well as problems understanding the concept of Civil Liberty for non-white, non-Christians… [ul][li]Voted YES on making federal death penalty appeals harder. (Feb 1995) [_]Voted NO on replacing death penalty with life imprisonment. (Apr 1994) [/ul][/li]\*\* **Homebrew** , you seem to be implying that gays disproprotionately commit first degree murder. Do you have any cites to prove that? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/19 "2002-11-15T20:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\ ***Homebrew** , you seem to be implying that gays disproprotionately commit first degree murder. Do you have any cites to prove that? 😉 \*\* Well, while there are other reasons to be opposed to the death penalty or support raising death penalty standards than because you want to commit murder, you’re right that the “death penalty”, as an issue, isn’t one that directly impacts on gays as a group. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879/20 "2002-11-15T20:43:56Z")
Come on, **Bricker**. His comments about his role “to promote ‘a biblical worldview’ in American politics” is at best disconcerting and casts a serious credibility problem as to his objectivity. He blamed the Columbine shootings and juvenile violence on parents putting kids in daycare and working mothers. When _Salon_ magazine broke the story about Henry Hyde’s This is a anti-DeLay screed. The Republican Party is tarred by their association with him and by electing him Majority Leader. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/log-cabin-republicans-what-s-wrong-with-these-queens/136879.md?page=2)