# Logic that is obvious to gamers **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 10, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568 "2012-11-10T11:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/161 "2012-12-09T05:19:04Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Other types, you have to stop and pick it up very… carefully… before you run away. And some times, it’s not ammunition… sometimes it’s daisies. You tried playing a mounted alchemist in _Skyrim_, didn’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/162 "2012-12-09T05:52:11Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Gamers will know that ammunition comes in two varieties: > > …2) Extremely weapon-specific. Ammunition is for specific weapons only and isn’t interchangeable with other guns of the same calibre. For example, you might have an L1A1 SLR rifle and an M-21 sniper rifle. Despite both being chambered for exactly the same ammunition (7.62x51mm NATO), for some reason you can’t use your plentiful SLR ammo in the sniper rifle - for which you can never seem to find more than a dozen rounds. Yes, a thousand times yes. Operation Flashpoint, and the various ArmAs, despite trying to get everything else ‘realistic’, pulled this crap a good deal of the time. Not being able to break down M-60 belts to feed my M-21 or M-110. Never mind trying to break down ammo for the PK, which sucked in OFP, to feed the Dragunov, which decidedly didn’t. At least ArmA let you carry more than 5 mags…and ran most of the NATO stuff off a common magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/163 "2012-12-09T20:27:01Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > You tried playing a mounted alchemist in _Skyrim_, didn’t you? 😉 Once. For about two minutes. Then I said “fuck this.” Actually, the “picking it very slowly” comment was about WoW. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/164 "2012-12-09T20:57:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Actually, I gotta give props to \*Morrowind \*on that one - pretty much the first sight you get when you exit the starter city is a giant bug with its abdomen carved out for travel. Then you meet the first enemies of the game, mudcrabs, which back then looked nothing at all like crabs (more like some evil cross between a tick and a barnacle. Only giant). Then a wizard fell on your head screaming, and you probably nicked his spiffy hat. Then you reached Balmora, a city where the guards wear armour made out of bug shells. Then and only then may you encounter the traditional giant-rats-in-the-basement quest ! 🙂 > > I miss the sense of wonder and alienation you got from playing _Morrowind_ for the first time… _Skyrim_’s just not the same on that front, you pretty much knew exactly where you stood from an aesthetics/lore/setting point of view just from the starting cutscene/extended tutorial. Ahh, the silt strider at Seyda Neen. I remember coming off the boat for the first time, looting all I could find at the Imperial customs house and then opening the door to that. Of course I charged at it with my rusty dagger only to find it was the size of a 747 and my puny attacks didn’t even cause a reaction. \*Morrowind \*certainly had atmosphere in spades. The generic fantasyland of _Oblivion_ and the icy wastes of _Skyrim_ just can’t compare. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/165 "2012-12-09T21:11:43Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > The chosen one of destiny is almost always either an androgynous emo teenager with horrible fashion sense or an impossibly huge hulking warrior. If the game is from Japan, the hero is the guy with the second biggest hairdo in the world. The villain is the guy with the biggest hairdo in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/166 "2012-12-09T23:30:39Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > And then in Skyrim, there’s a cabin out there where somebody’s pet rats have killed and eaten him. North of Rorikstead, I think… maybe he’s a relation? Unlikely - he’s a Nord, they were Dark Elves…although they should have made the victim another dark Elf, that would have been perfect. Maybe one of them was an ancestor and you just can’t see the traits of the dark elf great, great, great, etc grandmother after so much dilution… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/167 "2012-12-09T23:43:39Z")
It has been a couple hundred years since the events in Oblivion… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/168 "2012-12-10T00:57:29Z")
About 200; thus all the “greats”. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/169 "2012-12-10T17:16:36Z")
If you’re stuck on a puzzle rub everything in the room with every object in your inventory. If that doesn’t work…then you’re probably screwed. Refer to the mystical FAQ of games, cuz you’re **never** going to figure out how to get that damn Babel Fish on your own. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/170 "2012-12-10T19:02:20Z")
NPC’s have no concept of privacy whatsoever. It is completely normal for strange adventurers to come barging into their house without knocking, root through their possessions and loot them, and ask them questions. Also, they have nothing better to do than stand in the same spot all day every day. Shopkeepers have a very poort union. They are forced to stay open 24 hours a day. Meals, breaks, and even sleep are completely unnecessary. They are also forced to buy any items that you offer to them. Swarms of insects can carry plate mail, multiple weapons, large amounts of gold, etc, and they store them in a completely invisible container which pops on their death and releases the contents. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/171 "2012-12-10T19:10:37Z")
You can rush headlong into a hail of bullets and explosions. Worst case you die but then you just respawn a few seconds later, good as new. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/172 "2012-12-10T19:15:21Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > NPC’s have no concept of privacy whatsoever. It is completely normal for strange adventurers to come barging into their house without knocking, root through their possessions and loot them, and ask them questions. Also, they have nothing better to do than stand in the same spot all day every day. > > Shopkeepers have a very poort union. They are forced to stay open 24 hours a day. Meals, breaks, and even sleep are completely unnecessary. They are also forced to buy any items that you offer to them. > > Swarms of insects can carry plate mail, multiple weapons, large amounts of gold, etc, and they store them in a completely invisible container which pops on their death and releases the contents. Skyrim and Oblivion do have shopkeeper hours, and shops and houses are usually locked after hours. And people don’t like you coming into their houses after dark. However if you loot the shop you won’t find all the items they normally have for sale, it’s a much poorer inventory. Actually IIRC each shop actually has a secret chest underground and inaccessible that contains the merchants items. So there actually is a chest (that holds a ton of stuff), you just can’t get to it without cheating. But there are still occasional weird item drops on creatures. What is really funny is Fallout 3/New Vegas, you can blow someones body apart with a weapon, but each bit of the body is identified as that person when you put the crosshair on it. And, even if a bit of skull is 20 feet away you can do a full loot of all their possessions from that piece of skull. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/173 "2012-12-10T19:18:07Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > Shopkeepers have a very poort union. They are forced to stay open 24 hours a day. Meals, breaks, and even sleep are completely unnecessary. They are also forced to buy any items that you offer to them. There are at least a few exceptions. Garth’s Equipment Shop is only open during daylight. If you are in the shop when night falls you’ll be told the shop is closed and kicked out. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/174 "2012-12-10T19:33:05Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > There are at least a few exceptions. Garth’s Equipment Shop is only open during daylight. If you are in the shop when night falls you’ll be told the shop is closed and kicked out. The shops in Fallout 3 and New Vegas have hours, too, in that the shopkeepers sleep for some part of each day. Most of them also live in their shop, so if you enter the shop in the middle of the night you can just wake them up and they’ll happily do business. The only exception I can think of is the woman who runs the saloon in Good Springs. She shares a house with some Good Springs settlers and sleeps there. You can go in the saloon with no problems, but there is nobody there with whom to do business while she is asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/175 "2012-12-10T19:49:03Z")
Skyrim vendors also have hours. Usually 8am to 8pm. If it is not during business hours talking to them will generally not give you the “What do you have for sale?” convo option. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/176 "2012-12-10T20:34:35Z")
You can hold a gun in each hand, and reload them both at the same time, without putting either of them down. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/177 "2012-12-10T20:37:16Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > If you’re stuck on a puzzle rub everything in the room with every object in your inventory. If that doesn’t work…then you’re probably screwed. Refer to the mystical FAQ of games, cuz you’re **never** going to figure out how to get that damn Babel Fish on your own. Zork: Grand Inquisitor has a puzzle in which a two headed monster blocks your path, and makes smart remarks about your attempts. One of the remarks, after you go into your inventory is “Sure, dig into the old inventory, something’s got to work!” > [@Apocalypso](#): > > NPC’s have no concept of privacy whatsoever. It is completely normal for strange adventurers to come barging into their house without knocking, root through their possessions and loot them, and ask them questions. Also, they have nothing better to do than stand in the same spot all day every day. > > Shopkeepers have a very poort union. They are forced to stay open 24 hours a day. Meals, breaks, and even sleep are completely unnecessary. They are also forced to buy any items that you offer to them. > > Swarms of insects can carry plate mail, multiple weapons, large amounts of gold, etc, and they store them in a completely invisible container which pops on their death and releases the contents. In Fallout and Fallout 2, shopkeepers and some other NPCs will refuse to talk to you or deal with you at certain times. Same with Arcanum. In those games, the shopkeepers get PISSED if you manage to break into their locked shops and they find you there. In most cases, they’ll attack. However, if you can manage to do this undetected, the rewards can be excellent, so I always put some points into Lockpicking. This way, I can get equipment that I otherwise couldn’t afford. In Arcanum, there’s a Haggling skill. If you have no or little skill, then the shopkeepers might very well declare that they don’t want your Rusty Dagger or whatever. The shopkeepers will also generally not want to buy something that they wouldn’t carry, the Smith doesn’t want your magic scrolls, and the mage at the Magic Emporium doesn’t want your regular dagger, though she will buy a magic dagger. Increasing your Haggling skill will mean that you’re able to sell more goods at better prices to a wider variety of shopkeepers. So you’ll be able to sell those Rusty Daggers. And you’ll get much, much more money for your gems. When entering a buy screen, you can also look at what the shopkeeper is wearing or carrying. Usually, if you make an offer for the shopkeeper’s personal effects, it’s not accepted. If you’ve maxed out Haggling, though, you can buy them. It’s possible to steal things from shopkeepers and other NPCs in those games, too. If you are noticed while doing it, though, your target will generally attack or run away calling for help. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/178 "2012-12-10T20:41:44Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Skyrim and Oblivion do have shopkeeper hours, and shops and houses are usually locked after hours. Except for the guy who runs The Huntsman in Whiterun; that poor elf is stuck behind the counter 24/7. > [@](#): > > And people don’t like you coming into their houses after dark. But they have no problem following YOU into YOUR house and babbling on about whatever inane bullshit they were spewing at you. If you go into their house, and they attack you, if you fight back, you’re in trouble. If they follow you into your house, and you attack them, you’re in trouble. Bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/179 "2012-12-10T21:28:15Z")
Your military can find a role for big fat guys by giving them heavy machine guns or miniguns and having them lumber around. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568/180 "2012-12-10T21:59:07Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Except for the guy who runs The Huntsman in Whiterun; that poor elf is stuck behind the counter 24/7. Or the guy that is stuck halfway in the ground near the Whiterun(?) stables. He has multiple clones too, with the same name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logic-that-is-obvious-to-gamers/640568.md?page=10)