# logical flaw in Impeachment Articles **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 30, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614 "2019-12-30T19:42:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/41 "2019-12-30T21:34:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As an aside, I believe that Putin is still playing the Great Game… Why would he stop when he has so many useful helpers at his disposal? ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/42 "2019-12-30T21:34:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A mouse and an elephant are loose in your china shop. Which one do you worry about first? This was tested but with bulls, not elephants. The bulls carefully avoided all stacked ceramics. I don’t think elephants were tested at a Pottery Barn. Mice, however, can nibble away at the wooden shelves, sending china crashing. China crashing - is that a Tramp goal? Parachute-in more mice! > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Fuckin’ hell. :smack: > > [Trump denied Russian interference in election.](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/05/trump-admits-russia-helped-him-win-denies-it-20-minutes-later) This is after Tramp admitted participation in a conspiracy to evade federal election laws and receive foreign help. One need only wait five minutes for Tramp to deny saying what he was just recorded saying. So we value those denials as we wish. (No, unanimous intel findings of Russian cyberwarfare aren’t Deep State distractions. If a Deep State existed, Tramp would never have made it to Washington.) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/43 "2019-12-30T21:35:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I disagree. If you allege that only one entity interfered with an election, that is not a logical flaw. It may perhaps be a factual flaw that Trump could use in his defense but there is nothing illogical about it. > > If Bill says that he didn’t steal from you because he has proof that Dave did it, then you could point out that it was possible that perhaps both Bill and Dave stole from you, but Bill could then come back with proof that it was only one entity. Nothing illogical about it. Everyone agrees Bill stole some money. You say Bill’s stealing some money was not enough to explain why you beat Ted in the “fortune contest”. A court then declares Dave stole from you. You say investigate Dave. You are charged with requesting an investigation into Dave, and your statement that Bill didn’t help you win against Ted is misconstrued as a denial that Bill stole money. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/44 "2019-12-30T21:38:30Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Everyone ageees Bill stole some money. You say Bill’s stealing some money was not enough to explain why you beat Ted in the “fortune contest”. A court then declares Dave stole from you. You say investigate Dave. You are charged with requesting an investigation into Dave, and your statement that Bill didn’t help you win against Ted is misconstrued as a denial that Bill stole money. What are you even talking about?.. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/45 "2019-12-30T21:45:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What are you even talking about?.. It’s an analogy, Trump denies Russia helping him win the election but doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe Russia interfered and doesn’t mean that Ukraine didn’t interfere as well. Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/46 "2019-12-30T21:49:54Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s an analogy, Trump denies Russia helping him win the election but doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe Russia interfered and doesn’t mean that Ukraine didn’t interfere as well. Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! The only answer this deserves is: _ **BULLSHIT.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/47 "2019-12-30T21:56:50Z")
From YOUR OP: > [@OP](#): > > a discredited theory promoted by Russia alleging that Ukraine - rather than Russia - interfered in the 2016 United States Presidential election. The Articles are stating that Russia interfered in 2016 (as attested by literally everyone), but that Russian propaganda is pushing the theory that Russia did NOT interfere, Ukraine did. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Looks like you are stuck with Russia AND Ukraine interfering. Found the logical flaw. The Articles are not saying Ukraine didn’t interfere. They are stating that Russia did. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/48 "2019-12-30T21:59:33Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s an analogy, Trump denies Russia helping him win the election but doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe Russia interfered and doesn’t mean that Ukraine didn’t interfere as well. Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! What did you think the point of posting this was? Because all it did for me was make me think that I was greatly underestimating how often and how determinedly someone could post such obviously deluded obfuscation. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/49 "2019-12-30T22:06:07Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! Russian military intelligence hacked the DNC server and John Podesta’s email and released the contents by Wikileaks in order to damage to the Clinton campaign. Jesus fucking Christ, it’s like talking to people who haven’t read a newspaper in the last half-decade. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/50 "2019-12-30T22:08:11Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s an analogy, Trump denies Russia helping him win the election but doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe Russia interfered and doesn’t mean that Ukraine didn’t interfere as well. Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! I’m not sure how you managed to reach that conclusion from that analogy, but let’s assume you’re right. Let’s also assume Trump didn’t say what I quoted and linked about his position on Russian interference. Let’s ignore the Mueller report conclusions. Let’s ignore the 17 intelligence agencies agreeing on who meddled in the 2016 election. Let’s ignore ALL that, and more. Let’s focus on the following: 1. Trump lost the majority vote. 2. [Trump won by a total of ~80,000 votes combined across three states](https://www.axios.com/hillary-clinton-2016-election-votes-supreme-court-liberal-justice-1b4bc4fc-9fad-44b4-ab54-9ef86aa9c1f1.html) 3. Russia only needed to convince 0.0615% of the voting public with social media lies. A far larger % of the public believes in ghosts. Do you really believe it was that big a challenge for Russia to find [a handful of useful idiots](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio)? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/51 "2019-12-30T22:10:41Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Everyone agrees Bill stole some money. You say Bill’s stealing some money was not enough to explain why you beat Ted in the “fortune contest”. A court then declares Dave stole from you. You say investigate Dave. You are charged with requesting an investigation into Dave, and your statement that Bill didn’t help you win against Ted is misconstrued as a denial that Bill stole money. Right, but Bill gave the money to Dave before he stole it from you, and then Dave deposited the money in an interest-bearing account at Ted’s bank. But you hired Dave to investigate Bill, without realizing that Bill and Dave are identical twins, and that they were both Ted’s lovers before Ted was involved in a motorcycle accident that gave him amnesia, and if he ever recovers from the amnesia, he’ll reveal the whole thing, which is why you don’t want Ted to testify. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/52 "2019-12-30T22:13:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Russian military intelligence hacked the DNC server and John Podesta’s email and released the contents by Wikileaks in order to damage to the Clinton campaign. > > Jesus fucking Christ, it’s like talking to people who haven’t read a newspaper in the last half-decade. There’s no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC and provided those emails to Wikileaks who latter released them. > [@](#): > > Nearly three years have passed, however, and no one has produced forensic evidence of a DNC “hack” by “the Russians”—and that includes special counsel Robert Mueller, whose 2018 indictment of a dozen or so Russians presents zero evidence to support his accusations. Not even the FBI discovered evidence of any hack at the DNC because, in part, the nation’s federal law enforcement body never examined the DNC’s computer servers. [The Big Lie About ‘Russian’ ‘Hacking’](https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-big-lie-about-russian-hacking_2825871.html) ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/53 "2019-12-30T22:15:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not sure how you managed to reach that conclusion from that analogy, but let’s assume you’re right. Let’s also assume Trump didn’t say what I quoted and linked about his position on Russian interference. Let’s ignore the Mueller report conclusions. Let’s ignore the 17 intelligence agencies agreeing on who meddled in the 2016 election. Let’s ignore ALL that, and more. > > Let’s focus on the following: > > 1. Trump lost the majority vote. > 2. [Trump won by a total of ~80,000 votes combined across three states](https://www.axios.com/hillary-clinton-2016-election-votes-supreme-court-liberal-justice-1b4bc4fc-9fad-44b4-ab54-9ef86aa9c1f1.html) > 3. Russia only needed to convince 0.0615% of the voting public with social media lies. > > A far larger % of the public believes in ghosts. Do you really believe it was that big a challenge for Russia to find [a handful of useful idiots](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio)? Great analysis! You should have been on Clinton’s campaign staff so that her billions could have been spent more wisely. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/54 "2019-12-30T22:16:55Z")
**EasyPhil** cites [snicker]The Epoch Times[/snicker] ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/55 "2019-12-30T22:26:53Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > There’s no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC and provided those emails to Wikileaks who latter released them. > > [The Big Lie About ‘Russian’ ‘Hacking’](https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-big-lie-about-russian-hacking_2825871.html) I can count on you to cite flat earth scientific papers if it would help Trump. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/56 "2019-12-30T22:33:41Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Everyone agrees Bill stole some money. You say Bill’s stealing some money was not enough to explain why you beat Ted in the “fortune contest”. A court then declares Dave stole from you. You say investigate Dave. You are charged with requesting an investigation into Dave, and your statement that Bill didn’t help you win against Ted is misconstrued as a denial that Bill stole money. Well, again, that sounds like a good defense: you misunderstood me. I didn’t say that Bill didn’t steal money, I just said that Dave also did. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not sure how you managed to reach that conclusion from that analogy, but let’s assume you’re right. Let’s also assume Trump didn’t say what I quoted and linked about his position on Russian interference. Let’s ignore the Mueller report conclusions. Let’s ignore the 17 intelligence agencies agreeing on who meddled in the 2016 election. Let’s ignore ALL that, and more. > > Let’s focus on the following: > > 1. Trump lost the majority vote. > 2. [Trump won by a total of ~80,000 votes combined across three states](https://www.axios.com/hillary-clinton-2016-election-votes-supreme-court-liberal-justice-1b4bc4fc-9fad-44b4-ab54-9ef86aa9c1f1.html) > 3. Russia only needed to convince 0.0615% of the voting public with social media lies. > > A far larger % of the public believes in ghosts. Do you really believe it was that big a challenge for Russia to find [a handful of useful idiots](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio)? So, election interference only depends on the margin of victory? If the same exact things happened in 1984 on behalf of Reagan but he wins 59-41 then nothing to see here, no crime? I think the prior poster’s point is well taken. A scary sounding term like “interfering in the election” implies far more than a few stupid memes. I mean, not that I like foreign countries having any say in selecting our representatives, but with the global nature of the internet, such mild influences cannot be stopped, in either direction. I was going to say short of war, but even with war you couldn’t stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/57 "2019-12-30T23:14:24Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s an analogy, Trump denies Russia helping him win the election but doesn’t mean he doesn’t believe Russia interfered and doesn’t mean that Ukraine didn’t interfere as well. Of course, we don’t know what the President believes in his heart of hearts but he can be quoted as saying that he doesn’t believe that Russia interfered. > [@](#): > > Additionally, no one has explained the mechanics of how Russia helped Trump win, facebook ads, memes? Really?! a) I once read a story about a man who went to a voodoo priest and asked to be made invisible. The priest had him strip down and rubbed (magic) lemon juice all over him. Following, the man went to a bank, asked them to hand over their money, was dragged out by the security guards, and arrested for bank robbery. Was his plan solid? No. Did he ever have any realistic chance of success? No. Did he go to jail? Yes. Neither competence nor success is a component of committing a crime. One might even say that incompetence is a strong component of going to jail. b) The intelligence unit of the Russian army hacked into the DNC, looking for information on the Democrat’s campaign strategy and anything scandalous. They shared the former with some Republican candidates and Roger Stone (aka The Trump Campaign) and published the latter to WikiLeaks. In either case, this is the exact sort of operation that Richard Nixon’s American born and bred operatives were trying to conduct when they raided the DNC headquarters in the Watergate building. It is widely accepted that this sort of thing is “not kosher”, let alone when conducted by foreign operatives, and any President who was allowing of such activities by anyone is a disgrace to the Constitution, the flag, and humanity in general. And, one might note, the Watergate bandits failed in their mission and ultimately had no effect on the election. In the latter case, there did end up being embarrassing information released, indicating that the DNC had buried Sanders and made him unable to compete against Hillary. One could envision this depressing Democratic turnout. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/58 "2019-12-30T23:21:27Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > There’s no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC and provided those emails to Wikileaks who latter released them. > > [The Big Lie About ‘Russian’ ‘Hacking’](https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-big-lie-about-russian-hacking_2825871.html) So… Your belief is that we should release our sources and means for spying on Russia and detecting Russian hacking - to try and prevent it - to the general public? Care to make an argument in favor? Personally, I would argue that that would be stuuuuuupid, but I remain open to being convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/59 "2019-12-31T00:36:38Z")
The way you keep saying “Ukrainian Court”, like it means something roughly analogous to a US court or British court, is incredibly naive. It doesn’t. Ukraine is not considered a “rule of law” country. The Ukrainian justice system is incredibly corrupt, It’s not just a matter of a few corrupt individuals. It’s not a matter of a lot of corrupt individuals. The corruption is baked into the entire system. It’s an artifact of the oligarchy, basically anyone that holds any power or owns anything of substance came into it originally by corrupt means. It’s a perpetually tricky situation from a diplomatic / foreign relations POV and it isn’t helping matters that the Republicans are taking advantage of the average American’s relative ignorance of foreign affairs with all their gaslighting. I doubt Ukraine’s purpose in busting Manafort had much, if anything, to do with the US election. Manafort’s history would’ve made him a huge political enemy of the Ukrainians in power in 2016. It’s no secret that lots of Ukrainians dislike Trump. In 2016 Trump publicly called for Ukraine to concede the Crimean peninsula to Russia. Some top Ukrainian official, who were against giving a large swath of their nation to their worst enemy, wrote op-ed’s pushing back against the idea. These articles are now being cited by Republicans as evidence that the Ukrainian government had it in for Trump. Please note that this is a classic Trump move. Say or condone something so outrageously horrible that your target is guaranteed to push back against, then use that pushback as evidence that your target hates you, then retaliate. And please remember that Russia is dead serious about their mission of gaslighting Ukraine. They shot down a commercial airliner so they could blame it Ukraine. And even if Ukraine did interfere in some minor way, so what? Does that mean they’re obligated to cheat FOR Trump this time? Does that make it OK for Trump to shake down their president? And why do you and your red state cohort suddenly think election interference isn’t OK? No one is working under the illusion the Ukraine is perfect. They are really corrupt. We aren’t helping them because their leader thinks our leader is brilliant. We aren’t helping them because we “like” them. We help them for reasons like “they are strategically important to the energy security of Western Europe and the entire world.” ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614/60 "2019-12-31T01:26:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Of course, we don’t know what the President believes in his heart of hearts but he can be quoted as saying that he doesn’t believe that Russia interfered. > > a) I once read a story about a man who went to a voodoo priest and asked to be made invisible. The priest had him strip down and rubbed (magic) lemon juice all over him. Following, the man went to a bank, asked them to hand over their money, was dragged out by the security guards, and arrested for bank robbery. > > Was his plan solid? No. Did he ever have any realistic chance of success? No. Did he go to jail? Yes. > > Neither competence nor success is a component of committing a crime. One might even say that incompetence is a strong component of going to jail. > > b) The intelligence unit of the Russian army hacked into the DNC, looking for information on the Democrat’s campaign strategy and anything scandalous. They shared the former with some Republican candidates and Roger Stone (aka The Trump Campaign) and published the latter to WikiLeaks. > > In either case, this is the exact sort of operation that Richard Nixon’s American born and bred operatives were trying to conduct when they raided the DNC headquarters in the Watergate building. It is widely accepted that this sort of thing is “not kosher”, let alone when conducted by foreign operatives, and any President who was allowing of such activities by anyone is a disgrace to the Constitution, the flag, and humanity in general. And, one might note, the Watergate bandits failed in their mission and ultimately had no effect on the election. > > In the latter case, there did end up being embarrassing information released, indicating that the DNC had buried Sanders and made him unable to compete against Hillary. One could envision this depressing Democratic turnout. No, I’m sorry, you don’t know that the Russians provided those emails to WikiLeaks. Wikileaks denied it and there is no evidence to support it. Even the Mueller report hedges its bets, here’s a great article on this. [CrowdStrikeOut: Mueller’s Own Report Undercuts Its Core Russia-Meddling Claims](https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html) > [@](#): > > The report uses qualified and vague language to describe key events, indicating that Mueller and his investigators do not actually know for certain whether Russian intelligence officers stole Democratic Party emails, or how those emails were transferred to WikiLeaks. > > The report’s timeline of events appears to defy logic. According to its narrative, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange announced the publication of Democratic Party emails not only before he received the documents but before he even communicated with the source that provided them. > > There is strong reason to doubt Mueller’s suggestion that an alleged Russian cutout called Guccifer 2.0 supplied the stolen emails to Assange. > > Mueller’s decision not to interview Assange – a central figure who claims Russia was not behind the hack – suggests an unwillingness to explore avenues of evidence on fundamental questions. > > U.S. intelligence officials cannot make definitive conclusions about the hacking of the Democratic National Committee computer servers because they did not analyze those servers themselves. Instead, they relied on the forensics of CrowdStrike, a private contractor for the DNC that was not a neutral party, much as “Russian dossier” compiler Christopher Steele, also a DNC contractor, was not a neutral party. This puts two Democrat-hired contractors squarely behind underlying allegations in the affair – a key circumstance that Mueller ignores. > > Further, the government allowed CrowdStrike and the Democratic Party’s legal counsel to submit redacted records, meaning CrowdStrike and not the government decided what could be revealed or not regarding evidence of hacking. > > Mueller’s report conspicuously does not allege that the Russian government carried out the social media campaign. Instead it blames, as Mueller said in his closing remarks, “a private Russian entity” known as the Internet Research Agency (IRA). > > Mueller also falls far short of proving that the Russian social campaign was sophisticated, or even more than minimally related to the 2016 election. As with the collusion and Russian hacking allegations, Democratic officials had a central and overlooked hand in generating the alarm about Russian social media activity. > > John Brennan, then director of the CIA, played a seminal and overlooked role in all facets of what became Mueller’s investigation: the suspicions that triggered the initial collusion probe; the allegations of Russian interference; and the intelligence assessment that purported to validate the interference allegations that Brennan himself helped generate. Yet Brennan has since revealed himself to be, like CrowdStrike and Steele, hardly a neutral party – in fact a partisan with a deep animus toward Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logical-flaw-in-impeachment-articles/845614.md?page=4)