# Logistical Problems with Harry Potter (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239 "2003-11-20T02:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/21 "2003-11-20T14:40:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jennyrosity \* > \*\*Regarding question 4: Voldemort, like all super-villans, has a penchant for the dramatic. It is much more dramatic to have Harry disapeer at the end of the tournament, while surrounded by powerful wizards from all over Europe, than it is to have him disapeer while cleaning his teeth. It’s a bit like the whole discussion between Dr Evil and Scott Evil in Austin Powers: So you’re going to leave him alone with a couple of dumb henchman to guard him, while he’s about to be killed in a very slow and overly-complicated way? Why don’t you just shoot him? I have a gun, I’ll go get it now." I know that’s not the right quote, but you get the general gist. \*\* Great. Now I have an image of Luicus Malfoy and Voldemort in the cementary at the end of Book IV. Malfoy: My lord. I can understand wanting to duel him, but there over a dozen of us here. We’ll just point our wands and BOOM! Voldemort: (in the Dr. Evil voice) You know, Malfoy, you just don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Oreo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c57346/32.png) [@Oreo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oreo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/22 "2003-11-20T14:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gmork \* > \*\*One thing that bugs me - and I wish I could remember which book this is in - is that there’s a narrative line (I quote roughly): > > “…Harry quickly picked up the Invisibilty Cloak and shoved it in his pocket…” > > What? That thing is huge. I think if Harry had a pocket big enough to fit that in, it would have been something worth alerting the reader of. > > I’ll try and find a page reference for you. And a more accurate quote. \*\* I believe it’s at the end of the Shrieking Shack scene in Prisoner of Azkaban, and it’s Lupin who puts the cloak in his pocket. I have a theory on this one, too. Remember in the first book, how Harry & Hermione covered themselves _and a dragon!_ with the invisiblity cloak? Just how big is that thing, anyway? And then we’re supposed to believe it’s small enough to fit in a pocket? Also, wouldn’t Harry be tripping all over that thing when he takes it out for a solo midnight jaunt through the castle? I think the invisibility cloak is like the Weasley’s Ford Anglia, or the tents from the Quidditch World Cup. It shrinks or expands to fit the user’s need. Simple! > [@](#): > > Dead Thomas LOL! Well, if Ron’s reaction after Ginny’s little revelation at the end of OotP is any indication, he might indeed be dead very soon! (And Dean is definitely British, not American.) ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/23 "2003-11-20T15:05:37Z")
Well, that’s another error in the books, then! Rowling forgot to make Dean Thomas American! (Seriously, I could have sworn that they said Dean was American in Philosopher’s Stone. Maybe it was another of the first-years. Or my imagination.) ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/24 "2003-11-20T15:13:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I very much enjoyed the books, but the question that always bugged me is this: How can there be “poor” wizards? And by poor, I mean Weasley poor–i.e., shabby clothing, hand-me-downs, second-hand books, cracked dishes, etc. > > IOW, why wouldn’t everything be magically turned into first-rate, shining stuff? I’m not sure what use there is for money at all, considering the whole wizard universe. Its patently obvious that all wizards cannot simply make everything they want appear out of thin air. They have to bargain with muggles to get raw materials, like wood, cloth, and so forth, and probably a lot of their industries are not especially magical. I suspect, for example, that making clothes is not radically different from mundane tailoring work. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/25 "2003-11-20T15:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I very much enjoyed the books, but the question that always bugged me is this: How can there be “poor” wizards? And by poor, I mean Weasley poor–i.e., shabby clothing, hand-me-downs, second-hand books, cracked dishes, etc. > > IOW, why wouldn’t everything be magically turned into first-rate, shining stuff? I’m not sure what use there is for money at all, considering the whole wizard universe. Its patently obvious that all wizards cannot simply make everything they want appear out of thin air. They have to bargain with muggles to get raw materials, like wood, cloth, and so forth, and probably a lot of their industries are not especially magical. I suspect, for example, that making clothes is not radically different from mundane tailoring work. They have money for exactly the same reason we do: to use a medium of value-exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/26 "2003-11-20T16:23:46Z")
I suppose that my major concern with Hogwarts and Quiddich specifically is the lack of rules, and total lack of enforcement of any sort of order. Cheating seems to be widespread; Professors are allowed to show extreme favoritism, even threaten physical harm; bullying is tolerated, even encouraged- all of these are plausible, I suppose, but it seems odd to be happening under the watchful eye of the always-just, omniscient Dumbledore. examples would include the rampant cheating in Quiddich, as well as the assorted curses and cursed bludgers that float around without anyone stopping the games, everyone’s tolerance of Malfoy and his group, and Snape’s targeted harassment of anything not Slytherin. ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/27 "2003-11-20T16:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob Cos \* > \*\*I very much enjoyed the books, but the question that always bugged me is this: How can there be “poor” wizards? And by poor, I mean Weasley poor–i.e., shabby clothing, hand-me-downs, second-hand books, cracked dishes, etc. > > IOW, why wouldn’t everything be magically turned into first-rate, shining stuff? I’m not sure what use there is for money at all, considering the whole wizard universe. > > Again, I enjoyed the books, and I don’t really mind if well-told stories have somewhat illogical givens. Perhaps there is an explanation? \*\* As far as I can tell, you can’t create something out of thin air. The leprechaun gold is a good example, as it looks real but disappears after a while. And even Transfiguration is very difficult and taught by only the very best teachers (Dumbledore, McGonagall) as the students start with things as small as needles and after five years only seem to be up to hedgehogs. Harry’s Invisibility Cloak - my understanding was that it’s very thin. In Philosopher’s Stone, it’s described as being very light, and as we know it’s big enough to cover two children and a (small) dragon, the natural assumption is that it is thin enough to fold up small. It may well fit in Harry’s pocket. I have to admit I rather like the idea of a game where a match can last for days. It hasn’t happened yet in the series, but it might. It’s just a wonderful idea. ---
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/28 "2003-11-20T16:38:15Z")
Isn’t that precisely how football is handled in English schools? (Keep in mind that my entire experience of English schools is derived from C. S. Lewis and Monty Python’s _The Meaning of Life_…) ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/29 "2003-11-20T17:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*They have money for exactly the same reason we do: to use a medium of value-exchange. \*\* You poor, blind fool–wizard money is part of the centralized international banking system run by the great Goblin families of Europe–a tool used to subject credulous, complacent wizards to monetary oppression. For gods’ sake open your eyes! It is “patently obvious” that Goblin world domination is _imminent_. Boycott the wizard bank before it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/30 "2003-11-20T17:17:15Z")
So, **Humble Servant** , are the goblins part of the Illuminati or just in league? ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/31 "2003-11-20T17:31:10Z")
Well, duhh. The idiots at the Ministry have no clue about controlling wizards who must yap about everything. Muggles hear rumors about Gringott’s and, hey presto!, you’ve gotcher Illuminati theory. But really, since even the muggles can figure this one out, I am in absolute despair for the future of wizard freedom. Grow some balls, people. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/32 "2003-11-20T17:41:51Z")
The problem I’ve always had is about transfiguration. When you transfigure a pincushion into a porcupine, does the porcupine have a soul? Where does the soul come from? Is it a normal porcupine with thoughts, memories, and proper instincts? Does it remember being a pincushion? Conversely, when you transfigure a porcupine into a pincushion, where does the soul go? Have you effectively killed the porcupine? What are the moral implications of making such a transfiguration permanently? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/33 "2003-11-20T18:22:43Z")
I’m pretty sure the Catholic church would have something to say about that, too… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/34 "2003-11-20T18:44:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Short Guy \* > \*\*You mean, like tennis? \*\* Not even close. In tennis, the points add up normally. It’s just the “Love-15-30-40” system which seems odd (although its genesis was discussed here many times, and is fairly logical.) If you just think of it as a different name for “1-2-3-4” there’s nothing at all illogical about the system. In tennis terms, Quiddich would be like the first person getting an ace receiving 6 points and ending the game, or something like that. (Though I can’t find a perfect analogy.) ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/35 "2003-11-20T19:04:57Z")
I’m not sure I see what the problem is with quidditch. It isn’t really like ending the game on an ace in tennis, because there are _two_ ways to score. Either you slog along getting goals the regular way or you catch the snitch, which gains you an automatic 150 points (IIRC). So it would make sense to catch the snitch when your team was behind–as long as it wasn’t by more than 150 points. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/36 "2003-11-20T20:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cher3 \* > \*\*I’m not sure I see what the problem is with quidditch. It isn’t really like ending the game on an ace in tennis, because there are _two_ ways to score. Either you slog along getting goals the regular way or you catch the snitch, which gains you an automatic 150 points (IIRC). So it would make sense to catch the snitch when your team was behind–as long as it wasn’t by more than 150 points. \*\* If the lead \<150 (which it usually is), catching the snitch is all that counts. All the other scoring is meaningless. If the lead is \>150, then you don’t want to catch the snitch (although in the games in the book, they inexplicably do), this guarantees a loss. The best way to make up ground ensures a loss. If the teams that were behind by more than 150 points fought to keep the snitch from being caught instead of trying to catch it themselves, I might be willing to cut quidditch a little slack. But they don’t, so I figure a sport that’s designed so that much of the action is meaningless is a stupid sport. There’s no way this sport would survive in the real world without some major changes. Even if it was just a kids’ game, the kids would realize just how flawed it was and try to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/37 "2003-11-20T20:15:11Z")
That’s what I was thinking. Which books have games where the snitch is caught against a \>150 point lead by the other team? (I read them all at one point, but I’m fuzzy on the details.) ---
**Author:** ![Gulo\_gulo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Gulo\_gulo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gulo_gulo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/38 "2003-11-20T20:28:52Z")
One thing that always confused me was when Dobby disappears in Chamber of Secrets: > [@](#): > > ‘Dobby must go!’ breathed the elf, terrified; there was a loud crack, and Harry’s fist was suddenly clenched on thin air. Hermione is always stating “You can’t Apparate or Disapparate in Hogwarts” so do elves do something different? Or can you Apparate into another section of the castle and then leave on foot? Just something that always stuck out to me and I’d love to know if I just missed something stated elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![sghoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@sghoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sghoul)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/39 "2003-11-20T20:34:55Z")
I am thinking that the individual positions in Quidditch must not be able to play along the lines of another position. Otherwise, the best way to play would be to have half your team guard your goals and the other half look for the snitch. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/40 "2003-11-20T20:46:44Z")
Ahem. I have an explanation for item 4 in the OP. Why didn’t Crouch just make a portkey of his toothbrush or something? Well, I’d love to give hints for a while and see if some of you figure it out on your own, but I’d likely forget I was involved in this thread so I better just say it now. Two things to bear in mind. 1. Think of what it was like at Hogwarts that night. Who was there, the atmosphere, etc. etc. 2. Remember, portkeys don’t automatically take you back somewhere. You set them with a time to go and you can set them with a time to come back. Now, this information is all you need, but I’ll tell you how it fits. Voldemort and his crew were planning on coming back to Hogwarts with that portkey. They were going to attack en masse. With all the innocents around, not to mention a traitor still in perfect disguise and one headmaster who’s just going to run away, it wouldn’t be all that difficult for them to take out their threats. As soon as they’re through, Crouch could kill Dumbledore. After that, pick off the rest, including the Minister of Magic. Britain’s wizarding community would be in panic, and in a single night Voldy would be better off than he was at the height of his powers a decade prior. Naturally this is unproven, but it’s an awesome idea, and in fact the only good idea I’ve heard to explain it. I read this somewhere, Mugglenet I think, but maybe not. So I don’t take credit for coming up with the idea. On Quidditch. As a huge Potterfan I must say… the rules to Quidditch are just plain stupid as hell. How 'bout if the snitch was easier to catch and the game was over after it had gone uncaptured for an hour. The game may go on indefinitely, but ends when an hour after the last capture has passed. Something, anything but the nonsensical way it’s run in the books. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239.md?page=3)