# Logistical Problems with Harry Potter (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239 "2003-11-20T02:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sketch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Sketch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sketch)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/41 "2003-11-20T20:57:58Z")
Rowling discusses this somewhere in the book, I think it’s Dumbledore that explains that house-elves have powerful magic of their own, so they can appear and disappear in Hogwarts, much like Fawkes the Phoenix. What annoyed me in the books is that Harry never does the obvious things, In PS, CoS, there were so many oppurtunities to go tell the teachers and let themdeal with it but he has to do it himself. Although Rowling has sort of explained this in OoP. ---
**Author:** ![rdsiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/94ad74/32.png) [@rdsiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rdsiam)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/42 "2003-11-20T21:03:57Z")
I love the Harry potter books as much as the next person, but I’ve got some problems with the logic of the Wizarding World as well. For instance, it doesn’t seem logical to me that wizards would dress and behave so differently from muggles. Wouldn’t it be easier to hide if you look and act just like everyone else? For example, why live in a world where candles are used for lighting, why not use light bulbs? Another thing: I know that wizards use memory spells to make muggles forget what they know about them, but what about muggles with magic children. Hermione’s parents have been to Diagon Alley several times, cetainly they don’t get their memory wiped after each visit. And what keeps them, or any muggle parent from telling others? ---
**Author:** ![rdsiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/94ad74/32.png) [@rdsiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rdsiam)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/43 "2003-11-20T21:10:09Z")
I love the Harry potter books as much as the next person, but I’ve got some problems with the logic of the Wizarding World as well. For instance, it doesn’t seem logical to me that wizards would dress and behave so differently from muggles. Wouldn’t it be easier to hide if you look and act just like everyone else? For example, why live in a world where candles are used for lighting, why not use light bulbs? Another thing: I know that wizards use memory spells to make muggles forget what they know about them, but what about muggles with magic children. Hermione’s parents have been to Diagon Alley several times, cetainly they don’t get their memory wiped after each visit. And what keeps them, or any muggle parent from telling others? ---
**Author:** ![Loneraven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c0e974/32.png) [@Loneraven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loneraven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/44 "2003-11-20T21:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVAA \* > \*\*Isn’t that precisely how football is handled in English schools? (Keep in mind that my entire experience of English schools is derived from C. S. Lewis and Monty Python’s _The Meaning of Life_…) \*\* My entire experience of English schools is coming up on thirteen years, and if you mean football is handled by matches lasting for days, I have to respectfully remark, “Huh?” Or have I just been whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![sjc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@sjc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sjc)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/45 "2003-11-20T21:12:26Z")
I think Quidditch is a good game but does not get described very well in the books. I don’t have much problem with the 150 points for the snitch since other games have variable scoring and seem to work out fine. 150 points is extreme, but I think it could work. I just think that it needs more refinements in terms of rules. Also it seems like every Quidditch match described is subordinated to the needs of the story with out regard for reality. I’m not saying the games are all implausible, but they seem, I don’t know, not quite real. ---
**Author:** ![Meteorshower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@Meteorshower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meteorshower)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/46 "2003-11-20T23:26:48Z")
> [@](#): > > - Originally posted by bup \* > > 1. In book 4, Barty Crouch Jr. made the TriWizard Tournament a Portkey. Why didn’t he just make Harry Potter’s, I don’t know, toothbrush? a portkey? As a previous poster said, portkey’s are strictly regulated. My personnal theory is that the Triwizard Cup was supposed to be a Portkey, so it was registered at the ministry as being one. It was then sent to Hogwart’s to be enchanted to transport whoever touched it at the start of the maze. That way, the winner would instantly get out of the maze and wouldn’t have to fight his way back out (or risk it being stolen from him by another opponent). So, Barty Crouch Jr. enchanted the Triwizard Cup like he was supposed too, but “programmed” a different location in it than the official one. This supposes that the ministry only keeps track of which objects are portkeys and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Delly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Delly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/47 "2003-11-21T02:04:00Z")
Suprised not to have seen this mentoned already (or mabe it was and Ive missed it) but Hogwarts is one school in Britain, whats to say theres not 100’s more? just because we know of no others doesnt mean there not there. And I know you could argue about well then why does only Hogwarts compete in the the Triwizard Cup? Well doesnt it even mention that its the three biggest wizarding schools in Europe that compete? So maybe there are other schools in the UK, and that would account for the one hundred thousand wizards at the World Cup. ---
**Author:** ![Melandry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Melandry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melandry)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/48 "2003-11-21T02:12:16Z")
Another thing that accounts for the larger-than-expected number of wizards is their apparent extra-long lifespans. Dumbledore is what, ~150 according to Rowling, and Madame Marchbanks from Book 5 claims to have examined him for his NEWTs, so she’d have to be even older. You have 1 or 2 more generations around than we Muggles would expect… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/49 "2003-11-21T04:09:46Z")
Someone in another Harry Potter thread brought up the question of how Hogwarts handles the admission of Muggle-born students. I don’t think they could just be sent an admissions letter (via owl, no less) out of the blue and be expected to understand everything. Presumably someone would have to visit the family to explain the existence of the wizarding world, explain that there is this really prestigious but secret boarding school called Hogwarts and then go with them to Diagon Alley for the school supplies (but first going to Gringotts with them for the currency transfer). ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/50 "2003-11-21T04:15:36Z")
(These points cover a lot of different questions so I didn’t quote anyone in particular) Ahem… Cricket anyone? Matches lasting forever, strange ways of scoring and playing… I thought all along that she was poking fun at cricket with quidditch. Off topic: The Quidditch XBox game is hard. Easy if you’re playing house teams, but the world cup… As for Hermione’s parents, would you tell your muggle friends if your daughter was a witch? I think not. Do you remember everyone who was in your classes in school? Why would Harry (or JKR) mention them if they’re not important to the plot? (and Harry begat Hermione who begat Ron who begat Professor Trewlawney) NO! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/51 "2003-11-21T06:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sjc \* > \*\*I think Quidditch is a good game but does not get described very well in the books. I don’t have much problem with the 150 points for the snitch since other games have variable scoring and seem to work out fine. 150 points is extreme, but I think it could work. I just think that it needs more refinements in terms of rules. Also it seems like every Quidditch match described is subordinated to the needs of the story with out regard for reality. > > I’m not saying the games are all implausible, but they seem, I don’t know, not quite real. \*\* More refinement?! Other games have a variable scoring system? Sure, but not to this ridiculous magnitude (which you admitted). A goal is what, 10 points in Quidditch? The snitch is 150? All the action outside of catching the snitch is _absolutely meaningless_ unless your team sucks so badly that it can give up sixteen goals to none!!! Or your team can score 14 unanswered goals, and then loses 'cause your opps caught the snitch. This does not make sense on any level. The only defense of this game is that it’s meant to be absurd, a parody of cricket or whatnot. You cannot possibly convince me that the game on some level makes sense. Not that I care. They don’t detract from the readability of the books, and plots can be written around these defects. I’m just surprised Rowling didn’t think out the game a little better. I mean, when I had English students in Hungary, 10 year old girls would tell me how the rules of the game make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/52 "2003-11-21T07:24:31Z")
Another point on the number of students at Hogwarts (I don’t have my books here, so this is from memory): At one of the Quidditch matches, there’s mention of three hundred fans wearing green and silver (Slytherin’s colors). We’re already told that everyone but the Slytherins was rooting for Gryffindor that match, so that means that we’ve got three hundred Slytherins. On the other hand, if Harry’s class is typical in size, there are only about 70 Gryffindors. The four tables in the Great Hall are all the same size, which would argue for equal enrollment in the four houses. We might explain the Slytherin showing at the game by families and alumns, but if that’s the case, then why don’t any of the Weaslys ever come to the games? On Muggle knowledge of wizards: Muggles are on a need-to-know basis. Some Muggles, like the Dursleys and the Grangers, need to know, so they’re told. Most don’t need to know. Presumably, the wizarding world trusts that those who know will be discrete, or at least that they won’t be believed if they tell. On Quidditch: My impression is that professional Snitches are much harder to catch than scholastic-level ones. Harry is an extraordinary player, for a schoolboy, but he’s nowhere near pro. So usually, the Snitch isn’t so decisive in school matches, and it’s still plausible that pro matches could go for days (since the Snitch is so much more difficult). But it’s still not clear to me why Viktor caught the Snitch in the World Cup. He says it’s because his team was so far behind that they didn’t have a hope of catching up… But they weren’t, really. One or two more goals before the Snitch would have won them the game (I’m not sure how ties are handled in Quidditch). My best guess is that he knew he couldn’t stop the opposing Seeker from catching it, without catching it himself, and losing by ten points is better than losing by 310. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/53 "2003-11-21T07:56:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fiver \* > **Dean Thomas is an American. We may presume Cho Chung is Chinese, at least ethnically, and the Patil twins are South Asian, at least ethnically. So I think we can assume the wizarding world is global.** And of course this is made abundantly clear in GoF, with the Quidditch World Cup and the continental wizarding schools. It doesn’t say anywhere that Dean Thomas is American, but we do hear about a group of American quidditch fans who turn up at the tournament. (Although iirc JKR says in an interview somewhere that American wizards prefer a _different_ broom sport – along the lines of the UK/US soccer-football dichotomy. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/54 "2003-11-21T08:00:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stonebow \* > \*\*I suppose that my major concern with Hogwarts and Quiddich specifically is the lack of rules, and total lack of enforcement of any sort of order. Cheating seems to be widespread; Professors are allowed to show extreme favoritism, even threaten physical harm; bullying is tolerated, even encouraged- \*\* I just figured these were all Rowling’s commentary on the state of English boarding schools, esp. Snape’s prejudice against Harry. Not that I’ve ever been to an English boarding school…although I _have_ been to American public schools, and they’re not much better. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/55 "2003-11-21T09:26:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Dean Thomas is an American. We may presume Cho Chung is Chinese, at least ethnically, and the Patil twins are South Asian, at least ethnically. So I think we can assume the wizarding world is global. Isn’t our old friend Dead Thomas, 😃 sorry Dean Thomas the kiddiwink with the posters of West Ham on his walls? And doesn’t he shout out during a Quidditch match that some dastardly Slytherin or other should be given a yellow card? Having no knowledge whatsoever if yellow cards are used in American football, I’d suggest that this definitely makes him British. As for Cho, Padma and Parvati - I think they are British too, surely we all know that Britiain is multi cultural and not all British people are white. But the real reason I think this is that when we meet Fleur and Victor, their speech is written in a stilted manner which seems to convey the idea that they are not native English speakers. " 'Ave you finish wiz ze Bouillebaisse?" “Vot haff you to say, Herminoninny?” JK Rowling does not do this when Cho, Padma or Parvati speak. A far as I can see, the only foreign child in Hogwarts is Seamus Finnegan - obviously all the Irish Wizarding money is being spent on the Qudditch Team and there is none left for education, so juvenile witches and wizards have to go away to boarding school in the UK. As you know, we have our position as World Quidditch Champions to uphold, and that must surely cost a lot of EuroGalleons!!! Good grief; I have too much time on my hands! ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/56 "2003-11-21T11:10:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > \*\*I just figured these were all Rowling’s commentary on the state of English boarding schools, esp. Snape’s prejudice against Harry. Not that I’ve ever been to an English boarding school…although I _have_ been to American public schools, and they’re not much better. \*\* Speaking as someone who went to a school with both boarding and houses, it’s not quite that bad nowdays. Personally I think that Dumbledore really is insane, which is why he happily lets children risk their lives, and lets Snape get away with so much. More seriously, the thing about Wizard society is that it’s very slow to change, it’s not that long ago in absolute terms that real schools did things like that. Equally IIRC the original football games were played literally between two villages, with almost no rules, and could go on for days. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/57 "2003-11-21T12:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Katisha \* > \*\*(Although iirc JKR says in an interview somewhere that American wizards prefer a _different_ broom sport – along the lines of the UK/US soccer-football dichotomy. ;)) \*\* The US version is described in _Quidditch Through the Ages_. It’s called Quodpot, and I believe it involves exploding bludgers… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/58 "2003-11-21T12:58:42Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s what I was thinking. Which books have games where the snitch is caught against a \>150 point lead by the other team? (I read them all at one point, but I’m fuzzy on the details.) [quote] I don’t recall the other, but one book was “Goblet of Fire”. Krum caught the snitch after he realized that his team was outmatched. He chsoe to end the game on his terms. Tis is more or less what happens when the losing side catches the snitch.[/spoiler] > [@](#): > > Suprised not to have seen this mentoned already (or mabe it was and Ive missed it) but Hogwarts is one school in Britain, whats to say theres not 100’s more? just because we know of no others doesnt mean there not there. While there probably are no other large-scale schools, its entirely possible that there is a tradition of home-schooling or small local schools. > [@](#): > > For instance, it doesn’t seem logical to me that wizards would dress and behave so differently from muggles. Wouldn’t it be easier to hide if you look and act just like everyone else? For example, why live in a world where candles are used for lighting, why not use light bulbs? Why should Wizards be logical? No one _else_ is. Basically, Wizards are cut of from society, they’ve dropped out of the human race, and they are significantly behind us in development. So its no surprise that thet barely understand trains, let alone cars and electricity. And anyway, areas of really high magic, like Hogwarts, interfere with electronics. > [@](#): > > The US version is described in Quidditch Through the Ages. It’s called Quodpot, and I believe it involves exploding bludgers… Its American. Of course it involves exploding bludgers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/59 "2003-11-21T20:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > \*\*Isn’t our old friend Dead Thomas, 😃 sorry Dean Thomas the kiddiwink with the posters of West Ham on his walls? And doesn’t he shout out during a Quidditch match that some dastardly Slytherin or other should be given a yellow card? > Having no knowledge whatsoever if yellow cards are used in American football, I’d suggest that this definitely makes him British. \*\* More kids in the U.S. play soccer than any other sport. An American kid would likely know what a yellow card is. My nephew’s bedroom walls are covered in soccer posters. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239/60 "2003-11-21T22:13:33Z")
I do like the nod to non-Anglo Britain in the books. There’s nothing to suggest that Cho and the twins are anything other than British. Dean? Maybe the confusion arises from the fact that the English version of the books doesn’t mention his ethnicity at first, only making it clear later he’s Black, while in the American version it’s mentioned a lot sooner. I would like them to run into some no-nonsense, informal, egalitarian American folks though. The Minstry seems a little weird, very corrupt and inefficient yet the average Muggle doesn’t know about the wizarding world. Maybe they have a Sunnydale attitude going 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logistical-problems-with-harry-potter-spoilers/214239.md?page=4)