# Logological discovery **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 8, 2021, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421 "2021-03-08T03:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/41 "2021-03-20T09:34:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > My favourite set. What does missiness mean? Another of them there furrin’ words? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > daer? > gud? > roed? > steng? > taa? > wod? If anyone tried to play these in a friendly game of scrabble, I would cut off their right hand to teach them a lesson, OED or not. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/42 "2021-03-20T09:51:08Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > What does missiness mean? The state of being a Miss, duh. Archaically contrasted with missusness, but nowadays both being supplanted by mizziness. Not to be confused with misterness. Unless that’s your kink, I’m not judging. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/43 "2021-03-20T09:59:04Z")
Even roed? It’s in all the major dictionaries, too. Even M-W. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/44 "2021-03-20T10:00:28Z")
Sorry, missiness is going onto my hand cutting off list. Is it South African usage? If so, I may have to cut it some slack, so to speak. Google and Discourse tell me missiness or mizziness are both misspelled words. Roed is right out, it doesn’t make the Scrabble dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/45 "2021-03-20T10:10:08Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Is it South African usage? No, it’s _just_ English. It’s how English works. Kids can be [made to understand the principle](https://www.ck12.org/c/spelling/the-suffix-ness/lesson/Suffix-ness/). You start with Miss. Then something can be [missy](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/missy#Adjective) (which Discourse is fine with, FYI). Then you make missiness. And the “Scrabble dictionary” is not the be-all and end-all of what words exist. It makes M-W and the OED, and furthermore _even if it didn’t_, follows the pattern of how we make those kinds of words to a T. Roe-\>roed is no different than speckle-\>speckled or pimple-\>pimpled. It doesn’t _need_ to be in the dictionary to work as a valid word. Do you not grok how language works? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/46 "2021-03-20T10:21:42Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > If anyone tried to play these in a friendly game of scrabble, I would cut off their right hand to teach them a lesson, OED or not. Oh, and… Yet I’m sure you’ve memorized all the obscure 2-letter Scrabble words like qi and xu… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/47 "2021-03-20T15:16:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Roe-\>roed is no different than speckle-\>speckled or pimple-\>pimpled. It doesn’t _need_ to be in the dictionary to work as a valid word. I checked Encarta and American Heritage, since they were close to hand. Neither has roed. Moreover, both have “roe” only as a noun. As does my original source, [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com). Now, it’s possible to verb nouns so that by extension “roed” becomes a potential word. But potential words are not yet words. Dmitri Borgmann, whose books I mentioned above, did too much of this. He even included foreign words, proper names, and made-up words from fiction to fill out a list. A game isn’t a game if it has no rules at all. Therefore, the objection to having the official Scrabble dictionary be the arbiter of what is acceptable in Scrabble is just too silly to bother to refute. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/48 "2021-03-20T16:07:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > the objection to having the official Scrabble dictionary be the arbiter of what is acceptable in Scrabble is just too silly to bother to refute. _I_ wasn’t talking about what’s acceptable in Scrabble. You said “_not even in_ Scrabble”, not “in Scrabble”. But roed is perfectly acceptable _just as a standard English adjectival construction_. If it’s good enough for [M-W](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/roed), [Collins](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/roed), [Oxford](https://www.lexico.com/definition/roed) and [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/roed), it’s good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/49 "2021-03-20T18:46:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, it’s _just_ English No, it certainly is not American English. You can make up words all you want but until other people start using the word it does not matter. I’m willing to hazard a guess that the vast majority of Americans, Canadians and UK folk have never heard or seen the word missiness. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And the “Scrabble dictionary” is not the be-all and end-all of what words exist. It is when I was talking about words in scrabble. Follow the plot, please. Children can learn how to read for comprehension. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It doesn’t _need_ to be in the dictionary to work as a valid word. Words generally are in popular use before they make it into the dictionary, not the other way around. I fail how it can be a valid word if no one has ever heard it used before. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Do you not grok how language works? Yes, I do, and this is a condescending and insulting way for you to converse. If you can’t make your argument without assuming people that don’t agree with you don’t understand the subject, maybe you should rethink your position. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Yet I’m sure you’ve memorized all the obscure 2-letter Scrabble words like qi and xu… No, I haven’t, because most people play scrabble for fun, not to use obscure words that no one else knows or uses. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/50 "2021-03-20T20:16:30Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > No, it certainly is not American English. The adjective + -ness suffix construction works just as well in American English as it does in any other variant. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > I’m willing to hazard a guess that the vast majority of Americans, Canadians and UK folk have never heard or seen the word missiness. That’s irrelevant. It follows a perfectly common rule for nouning adjectives. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > It is when I was talking about words in scrabble. Already dealt with this non-argument from E\_M. > [@](#): > > Follow the plot, please. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > this is a condescending and insulting way for you to converse Pot, meet Kettle… > [@mordecaiB](#): > > I fail how it can be a valid word if no one has ever heard it used before. Because English has methods of constructing word variants from other roots and common suffixes and prefixes. Like I said, it’s something even kids can be taught. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > No, I haven’t, because most people play scrabble for fun, not to use obscure words that no one else knows or uses. …or else someone will (“jokingly”) threaten to chop their hand off. Yeah, that sounds like my idea of “for fun”… Also, “no one else” is covering all of Vietnam and China, there… ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/51 "2021-03-20T20:37:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The adjective + -ness suffix construction works just as well in American English as it does in any other variant. Not in this case it doesn’t. If it did people would use missiness. They don’t. Missiness is not a word in US, ever. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I have ever heard the word missy except in very old movies/TV. > [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s irrelevant. It’s not irrelevant. Just because you can make another form of a word does not mean it happens for every word. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Already dealt with this non-argument from E\_M. Dealt with in your own mind, maybe. I was specifically talking about the use of words in Scrabble so I think the Scrabble Dictionary is pretty on point. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Pot, meet Kettle… Well, when someone can only argue with insults, sometimes that’s all they understand. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Because English has methods of constructing word variants from other roots and common suffixes and prefixes. Like I said, it’s something even kids can be taught. But not all words. Something we do teach our kids, that is why nobody in the US has ever used the word missiness. It has absolutely no meaning in our language or, I suspect, most other forms of English. > [@MrDibble](#): > > …or else someone will (“jokingly”) threaten to chop their hand off. Yeah, that sounds like my idea of “for fun”… See, this is another example of you not understanding how English works outside of your little bubble. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Also, “no one else” is covering all of Vietnam and China, there… I have no idea what this means. Are you saying Vietnam and China are English speaking countries? My whole point in this thread is about English speaking countries. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/52 "2021-03-20T21:17:31Z")
Kn\*ckers. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/53 "2021-03-20T21:26:01Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Missiness is not a word in US, ever. “She never had any missiness, any false or mawkish prudery.” —_A Puritan Pagan: A Novel_, by American novelist [Julien Gordon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Cruger), 1891 Google Books turns up at least a dozen more uses of the word in British literature, sometimes by authors that are famous enough to be read in America. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/54 "2021-03-20T21:35:43Z")
Did you notice the date? 120 years ago. Sorry if my post was unclear. We, or at least I, were speaking of current usage, I meant missiness is not a word in the US today, ever. As in today it never happens, ever. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/55 "2021-03-20T22:16:11Z")
Yeah, keep moving those goalposts. Eventually you’ll find some carefully chosen set of conditions under which you’ve won the argument. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/56 "2021-03-20T22:59:38Z")
Dude, go back and read my posts. They are all about now, I never said a word about archaic usage. If you can’t make an argument on my actual posts, maybe you should abstain or find someone that is actually talking about archaic words. Don’t blame your lack of ability to follow a thread on me. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421/57 "2021-03-20T23:40:51Z")
**Moderator Instruction** I would not have expected a simple thread about letter substitution to get a couple of our users at each other’s throats, but since this thread has somehow managed that, I am officially instructing @mordecaiB and @MrDibble to no longer post in this thread. For everyone else, let’s get back to the original topic, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/logological-discovery/937421.md?page=2)