# Loki TV series discussion (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 27, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625 "2021-01-27T18:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/341 "2021-07-01T14:25:47Z")
I keep seeing this referenced as the first hard evidence for vampires in the MCU. What were the other two? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/342 "2021-07-01T14:26:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I didn’t really understand why that would create a nexus event. Without the intervention of the TVA, they would have been dead within the next few minutes. Or not. What I got out of it was that their connection was going to actually change something in the apocalypse and either they wouldn’t have been dead in the next few minutes, and/or someone else (who would alter the sacred timeline) wouldn’t have been dead in the next few minutes, and/or something would kick start some reaction in a place where there wasn’t an apocalypse. Whatever it was, to keep the timeline in place the two of them needed to be apart and off the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/343 "2021-07-01T14:29:16Z")
Maybe Mobius is really Morbius. (Coming in 2022, BTW) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/344 "2021-07-01T14:30:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I keep seeing this referenced as the first hard evidence for vampires in the MCU. What were the other two? In Ragnarok Korg hands Thor a three pronged spear and when Thor turns it down he says something like I guess this is only good for killing three vampires standing together. In Wandavision the two kids wonder if their uncle is a vampire because he sleeps all day. This is the first time someone has come out and said that there actually ARE vampires though. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/345 "2021-07-01T14:32:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > This is the first time someone has come out and said that there actually ARE vampires though. Another quick search reveals there is an MCU Blade film in the works. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/346 "2021-07-01T14:33:29Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Or not. > What I got out of it was that their connection was going to actually change something in the apocalypse and either they wouldn’t have been dead in the next few minutes, and/or someone else (who would alter the sacred timeline) wouldn’t have been dead in the next few minutes, and/or something would kick start some reaction in a place where there wasn’t an apocalypse. > > Whatever it was, to keep the timeline in place the two of them needed to be apart and off the planet. That’s what I got as well. They were so coy about what kind of “connection” Loki and Sylvie had (with Loki taking such a ridiculously long dramatic pause to say whatever it was he was going to say before being “reset”), I suspect the idea that they had a romantic connection may be a red herring. It seemed to me like something else was going on. Like maybe Loki realized something about how to combine their powers? Or merge into a gestalt? Or something? I’ve been _really_ bad at predicting anything in any of these Disney+ MCU shows, though, so… ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/347 "2021-07-01T15:17:27Z")
He might be fun as a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/348 "2021-07-01T18:17:00Z")
Yeah, I’m confused as to why people seem to think this is a particularly novel concept, either in Loki or Umbrella Academy. The [Vast Bureaucracy](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VastBureaucracy) trope is pretty well tread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/349 "2021-07-01T18:29:38Z")
The Celestial Bureaucracy was literally an element of some Chinese religious beliefs. The idea was that heaven was arranged along the same lines as the pre-Maoist Chinese state. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/350 "2021-07-01T18:57:30Z")
I’m not surprised that there is a bureaucracy. I’m surprised at how much alike they are. For all intents and purposes, with only cosmetic differences, the Temps Commission and the Time Variant Authority are the same. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/351 "2021-07-01T21:15:17Z")
Going back to discussions of the nature of variants/Loki/Sylvie from last week’s episode, a few things seem to be nailed down (barring unreliable narrators… seems like Sylvie probably knows a fair bit about the operations of the TVA after a lifetime of fighting them): (1) There isn’t just one sacred timeline, there are many, but they only get pruned if they get too far away from the sacred one (2) One such timeline was Sylvie’s home timeline, in which she was being raised in Asgard as a girl child (2a) Unclear what “nexus event”, if any, caused that timeline to suddenly be in need of pruning, although given that they showed up and arrested HER, it presumably related directly to her, as opposed to her parents etc (2b) Also unclear whether she’s effectively a clone of our Loki, who just, being genderfluid, decided to look like a girl while in Asgardian form. But I feel like that’s pretty unlikely given what we’ve seen. (2c) Which makes it unclear why Sylvie is considered a variant of Loki. Is she genetically his sibling or half sibling? Was she raised as a princess of Asgard and sister of Thor? Etc. I definitely hope they come back to why Loki and Sylvie having a bonding moment was such a nexus event… and that there’s a reason which makes sense even on a doomed moon. The idea of “you can’t screw up the timeline if you’re already in a place where everyone is going to die” is actually a really clever one, and it would suck if they just kind of forgot about it. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/352 "2021-07-01T21:21:53Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > 2a) Unclear what “nexus event”, if any, caused that timeline to suddenly be in need of pruning, although given that they showed up and arrested HER, it presumably related directly to her, as opposed to her parents etc They chose the moment when Sylvie is playing with her toys, and afterwards we (the viewers) specifically see the reset charge pruning those toys. That must have some significance. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/353 "2021-07-01T22:03:05Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (1) There isn’t just one sacred timeline, there are many, but they only get pruned if they get too far away from the sacred one I still think there’s only one sacred timeline, but that some branches don’t end up resorting in totally different realities, and end up getting absorbed back into the main timeline. Like, according to the sacred timeline, you were supposed to have a burrito for lunch today, but there’s a nexus event where you get a burger instead. But whether you had a burger or a burrito doesn’t actually matter - it doesn’t change anything in the long run, so that timeline ends up joining back in. Viewed from out side the timeline, it’s like a tiny loop, maybe even so small the TVA can’t even see them. Sylvie being a female infant didn’t really change anything - boy babies and girl babies are pretty interchangeable. For a couple years after the divergence, it’s indistinguishable from the “sacred” timeline. But eventually, as she gets older, that changes - and that’s where her timeline suddenly goes orthogonal to the sacred timeline, and the TVA intervenes. > [@mikecurtis](#): > > They chose the moment when Sylvie is playing with her toys, and afterwards we (the viewers) specifically see the reset charge pruning those toys. That must have some significance. Possibly just a symbolic, “end of childhood” thing? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/354 "2021-07-01T22:35:06Z")
Best as I can tell, Sylvie is guilty of nothing except self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/355 "2021-07-01T23:24:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I still think there’s only one sacred timeline, but that some branches don’t end up resorting in totally different realities, and end up getting absorbed back into the main timeline. Sure, it’s a bit irrelevant where there is a single extra-special “one sacred timeline” which has around it a near-infinite number of “close enough” timelines constantly being created and reabsorbed; vs the “one sacred timeline” is actually a timeline-cluster of nearly-identical timelines, all of them equally sacred, but sometimes a timeline will stray too far from the cluster and need to be pruned. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/356 "2021-07-01T23:39:00Z")
They stopped Sylvie’s timeline because she wasn’t the loki that was killed by Thanos in the ‘sacred’ timeline, and likely wasn’t the Loki that caused NY, etc - It was at that ‘moment’ that her path diverged enough that it was obviously going to go a different way. As Mobius said - he’s not so much the ‘Trickster’ or ‘chaos’ as the ‘god that brings out the best in others’ - and my guess is Sylvie was NOT those things. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/357 "2021-07-02T00:21:07Z")
> [@simster](#): > > As Mobius said - he’s not so much the ‘Trickster’ or ‘chaos’ as the ‘god that brings out the best in others’ - and my guess is Sylvie was NOT those things. She seems to be doing that to Loki in the last couple episodes. Arguably, she’s literally doing that with the TVA guards when she brings back their memories. ---
**Author:** ![Peckarami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@Peckarami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peckarami)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/358 "2021-07-02T07:36:38Z")
My take from that scene was she was pretending to be a Valkyrie (we see Fenris also) so she appears to be taking the path of the hero. We know that ‘sacred’ Loki is supposed to fail and bring out the best in others, but to do that he needs to play the part of the villain. That is when the timeline gets clipped, as she is not supposed to play the hero. I could be very wrong with that assumption! ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/359 "2021-07-02T09:46:15Z")
Yeah, that’s interesting. I just rewatched that scene. Sylvie is playing at being a Valkyrie defeating a dragon (Surtur?) Maybe dreaming of stopping Ragnarok. Possibly indicating her choice to be a hero rather than a villain, which the TVA doesn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/360 "2021-07-02T15:48:47Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I definitely hope they come back to why Loki and Sylvie having a bonding moment was such a nexus event… and that there’s a reason which makes sense even on a doomed moon. The idea of “you can’t screw up the timeline if you’re already in a place where everyone is going to die” is actually a really clever one, and it would suck if they just kind of forgot about it. Yeah, I think this definitely needs to be fleshed out more; otherwise, it’s just a ‘the rules of timetravel are whatever we say they are’-moment, which would be a terribly lazy way to get out of the corner the last episode finished up in—I was actually intrigued by the possibilities for Loki and Sylvie to survive. They’d so carefully and methodically cut away all possible reasonable exits—the time-pad has no juice; we need to find a new power source; the time-pad is destroyed; we need to find another way off this moon, let’s get to the ark in time; the ark blows up—to just throw all of this away with nothing but a mumbling reference to the ‘chaos’ created by two variants sharing a romantic moment seconds before their annihilation would be a serious letdown. It really seemed they were setting up something clever, so I hope this’ll be more than what we’ve seen so far at the surface. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=19)