# Loki TV series discussion (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 27, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625 "2021-01-27T18:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/501 "2021-07-21T20:15:58Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > They completely abandoned the story they were telling to do a trailer for phase 4. I don’t mind cliffhangers. I don’t mind setting up some further aspects of the mythos. But I do mind when they come at the expense of actually telling your story. I think their answer to this would be that the Loki series just isn’t finished yet, and that the plot threads you mentioned will get resolved by the end of the series. I had somewhat of the same reaction as you to this episode, but hopefully the new season (or seasons?) will handle all that. I think the way I’d put it is that these 6 episodes feel to me like the first half of a 12-episode story, as opposed to a full 6-ep story that leaves room for another 6-ep story to be told next year. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/502 "2021-07-22T08:20:04Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > WandaVision setup the next phase for the Scarlett Witch, FATWS setup Captain America 4, and Loki setup the Multiverse of Madness that we all already know is coming. Like I said, I’m OK with cliffhangers, I’m OK with setting up further aspects of the mythos. But look at the difference in your examples: WandaVision closed the book on Wanda’s grief-driven illusion; gave her closure with Vision; resolved her conflict with Agatha; showed us Monica getting and using powers; even showed the minor good guys beating the minor bad guy. Every story line came to a more or less satisfying resolution in what was a very rushed final episode - and then it showed us a brief scene of Wanda further exploring her powers. FATWS was more muddled for pandemic reasons, but we finished the flagsmasher story, resolved the Bucky/Sam tension, saw Sam fully accept his role as the new Cap and somewhat address the underlying racial issues. We even saw a full arc for John Walker who rose, fell and was given some kind of redemption. Yes, they set up some more stuff with this Countess whoever but they also told all their stories (as best they could). Loki didn’t tell its story. Maybe @borschevsky is right and this is in fact just the half way point of a 12-ep story. If so… I mean, I guess I’ll be excited to pick it up in 18 months or however long it takes to produce TV nowadays, still less slot it into the appropriate place in the release schedule. But right now, it was a very frustrating end to what had been arguably the best of the three series so far. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/503 "2021-07-22T08:27:06Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I think the way I’d put it is that these 6 episodes feel to me like the first half of a 12-episode story, as opposed to a full 6-ep story that leaves room for another 6-ep story to be told next year. I have seen it claimed on social media that this was originally supposed to be a 12-episode series which was split into two due to COVID interruptions, but I have not found anything official to support this assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/504 "2021-07-22T15:05:44Z")
WandaVision was a one season mini series. There will be no season 2. FATWS was also a one shot, no season 2. Loki is already announced to have a second season. All three setup future shows and movies, but only one is decidedly not finished after one season. Do you not see the difference between a one off miniseries and a multiple season series? Do you expect every TV show you watch to close every storyline and resolve absolutely everything each season? That kind of defeats the purpose of having multiple seasons. Can you imagine if Breaking Bad fully resolved each season at the end and had to restart a whole new story the next season? That’s not how serialized shows work. Loki is one, the other two series are not. I really think that many times when people have extreme reactions to something that seem pretty far from the typical audience reactions, the reason is at least partly and maybe mostly due to misplaced expectations. If you expect something to be what it isn’t, then that can cause a lot of disappointment. Expecting a multiple season show to resolve everything at the end of season one is an example of this. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/505 "2021-07-22T16:19:42Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Like I said, I’m OK with cliffhangers, I’m OK with setting up further aspects of the mythos. But look at the difference in your examples: For me, this was the first of the three Marvel shows that actually finished strong. WandaVision’s finale was okay, FatWS was actively bad, but this was interesting and left the story in a place I’m interested in following. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/506 "2021-07-22T18:59:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Do you expect every TV show you watch to close every storyline and resolve absolutely everything each season? There’s only so many times I can write the words “I’m OK with cliffhangers” while still expecting them to be understood and we appear to have reached that limit. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Can you imagine if Breaking Bad fully resolved each season at the end and had to restart a whole new story the next season? Each season of Breaking Bad set up some key character and plot questions, then resolved them by the final episode. We didn’t have to wait and see what happened between Jessie and Jane. We didn’t have to wait and see how Walter and Jessie would deal with the threat that Gale would make them redundant. We didn’t have to wait and see whether Gus or Walter would come out on top once they took the gloves off. We didn’t have to wait and see if Hank would succeed in nailing Walter. Each season had a satisfying arc - and then left something to build on next season. They did not have final episodes where - twice! - the fundamental conflict between two characters was paused because one of them left the room. Nor did they have their two leads spend large chunks of the final episode listening to someone else monologue. So no. I didn’t expect Loki to resolve everything. I expected it to resolve _something_. The closest we got was the revelation that whereas we had originally been told that the TVA was set up by three lizards to prevent chaotic war between the multiverses, in fact that was an utter fabrication: the truth was that the TVA was set up _by one guy_ to prevent chaotic war between the multiverses. This was not the unravelling of the long con that we’d been set up for since Episode 1. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/507 "2021-07-22T19:09:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For me, this was the first of the three Marvel shows that actually finished strong. WandaVision’s finale was okay, FatWS was actively bad, but this was interesting and left the story in a place I’m interested in following. Oh, I didn’t think those finales were great. I had my problems with [Wanda’s](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1213) and as you say FATWS’s was a mess. But they both did make an effort to close off their storylines. I am interested in seeing what happens next in Loki - can Loki return from this new universe or better yet, manage some kind of co-ordination across multiple TVAs? What will Sylvie do now? Where does original Moebius go from here? What’s did Rennslayer see in the files? I’m also interested in seeing how these developments affect e.g. Spiderman and Dr Strange. My problem is just that the episode was vastly more interested in setting these new questions up than in answering the ones it already had. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/508 "2021-07-22T19:17:07Z")
You’re ok with cliffhangers, sometimes. This is all subjective. I’m ok with being patient for season 2 and watching this whole multiverse thing play out over the next several years and throughout the next phase of the MCU. I don’t need any more answers yet as we are at essentially moment zero of that new phase. I feel like too many answers and resolutions at this particular moment would cheapen the setup and idea that this is a whole new multiverse that we know nothing about. Neither one of our viewpoints needs to be wrong. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion of a TV show, not a debate or argument. I’m fine with just letting this go now that we’ve both communicated our thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/509 "2021-07-22T19:19:52Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Oh, I didn’t think those finales were great. I had my problems with [Wanda’s](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wandavision-on-disney-open-spoilers/931094/1213) and as you say FATWS’s was a mess. But they both did make an effort to close off their storylines I get what you’re saying - I suppose I prefer a finale where the story lines are still open, to one where they’re largely resolved in an unsatisfying manner. That really pertains more to FaWS than WV, although WV dropped the ball in a couple places, too. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/510 "2021-07-22T19:21:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > This is supposed to be a friendly discussion of a TV show, not a debate or argument. I’m fine with just letting this go now that we’ve both communicated our thoughts. Sure, this is absolutely just my subjective opinion. I’m glad people enjoyed it more than I did! (And I did, overall, love the show.) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/511 "2021-07-22T19:34:30Z")
No worries. I hated it too. Pretty much for the reasons you listed. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/512 "2021-07-22T19:35:11Z")
It’s better to travel hopefully than arrive! I’m only half-joking if I say I watched Lost and BSG so I’ve been hurt before. I don’t think Loki is anywhere near that point - and Marvel have shown they know how to pull big storylines together. But the abruptness of the way some storylines were guillotined just made my hackles rise a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/513 "2021-07-22T22:15:17Z")
I agree while there were high points and several of the ideas introduced make me want to see more, it did feel unfinished and rushed and a little sloppy in places. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/514 "2021-07-23T00:53:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t need any more answers yet as we are at essentially moment zero of that new phase This is me. People who get frustrated at the start of a new series, then get a trickle of answers fed to them through the series, still don’t seem to be satisfied (ie _Lost_). I, on the other hand, am satisfied by that, especially as I have come to expect it; it’s how TV like this goes now, so I don’t rush to frustration or confusion, I await more details as the story unfolds. In this case, the entire MCU will be providing some of those answers, and the TV series the rest, it’s not just going to be _Loki_ season 2. You won’t have long to wait before the first few - _Spider–Man No Way Home_ then _Doctor Strange Multiverse Of Madness_ in 2022, then _Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantumania_ in 2023; answers are on their way. But will everyone here come back after the story concludes and admit it was worth the wait? Time will tell. NB: I’m not expecting _Shang Chi_ or _The Eternals_ to touch on this, as they were originally scheduled to release last year, before _Loki_. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlax/32/2927_2.png) [@Scarlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlax)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/515 "2021-09-16T00:25:01Z")
Just completed the show and enjoyed it very well. Has anyone here read Pullman’s _His Dark Materials?_ I thought the parallels were unmistakable with respect to bringing war to the Authority. Having that in mind, He Who Remains was about what I expected for the person holding the reins. Interesting to see how Loki was inclined to maintain the system and take control while Sylvie was always going to reject the system of authority and destroy it regardless of the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/516 "2021-10-04T02:22:32Z")
So He Who Remains real name is Nathaniel Richards which is the same name as Kang the Conqueror in the comics. Other alternate temporal versions of Nathaniel Richards in the comics include Immortus, Rama Tut, and Scarlet Centurion. **Note** : Nathaniel Richards is also the name of Reed Richard’s(Mr Fantastic’s father) but he is a different character than above mentioned Nathaniel Richards. Though the above mentioned is believed to a future descendant of the two. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/517 "2021-10-04T02:24:27Z")
So my theory is that He Who Remains was pruning timelines to prevent the rise of Kang the Conqueror which he saw as the most dangerous version of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Enjoy\_Slurm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enjoy_slurm/32/3937_2.png) [@Enjoy\_Slurm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enjoy_Slurm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/518 "2021-10-04T05:53:48Z")
Well, that’s what He Who Remains said he was doing. In the show. And at the end of the last episode the show shows us the statue of Kang The Conqueror in the TVA headquarters. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2021, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/519 "2021-10-04T11:53:25Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ImvVpBBiOYU/maxresdefault.jpg "Ookla the Mok - Everybody’s Kang the Conqueror") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvVpBBiOYU) provides valuable background on Kang ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/520 "2023-10-07T02:19:47Z")
Season 2 premiered yesterday with the episode “Ouroboros”. It was hilarious. “At least you’ll be alive!” “What’s my quality of life, without skin?” And the scene in which Loki time-skips back to his first meeting with O.B., hundreds of years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=27)