# Loki TV series discussion (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** disney-hulu\ **Created:** [January 27, 2021, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625 "2021-01-27T18:06:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/121 "2021-06-14T14:52:03Z")
Well, maybe we’ll have an episode of _What If…?_ devoted to what happened to Cap in the timeline where he went back to be with Peggy. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/122 "2021-06-14T15:44:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If Sharon is his granddaughter, then any changes he makes may jeopardize her very existence. Just a note here, Sharon isn’t Peggy’s granddaughter, she’s her niece. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/123 "2021-06-14T16:08:37Z")
Great niece, technically. But that is who she is introduced as, and maybe even who she thinks that she is, but that does not necessarily mean that that is who she actually is. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/124 "2021-06-14T16:37:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But that is who she is introduced as, and maybe even who she thinks that she is, but that does not necessarily mean that that is who she actually is. Yeah… I don’t think they’re going to retcon it Steve made out with his own granddaughter. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/125 "2021-06-14T17:40:35Z")
Fits the Norse mythology to some degree also. He did give birth to Sleipnir the 8 legged horse of Odin and is often credited with giving brith to Jörmungand & Fenrir. * * * Excellent episode, I’m happy with the start of this one. Loved the D.B. Cooper bit. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/126 "2021-06-14T18:00:43Z")
My headcanon about Steve is that he spend the remainder of his life doing heroic things… but on a smaller, local, scale. Maybe the chapter of the KKK that was near where he and Peggy lived mysteriously had its secret membership lists leaked, and the nearby Habitat for Humanity built WAY more houses than one would have thought possible, etc. I can’t imagine Steve just not doing good. But maybe he either knows or believes that if he does anything macro-level he risks destroying the universe he lives in. Se he does good in the world, but just not the way he did as CA. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/127 "2021-06-14T18:19:10Z")
Yeah. Steve could be the cause of a lot of good in the background of the MCU universe, making a bit of tape on a doorframe at the Watergate a little more obvious, shortcircuiting an Apollo sabotage attempt at Cape Kennedy, making sure a few fewer Hydra agents got into SHIELD, etc. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/128 "2021-06-14T18:25:11Z")
Hey that middle one was Gary 7’s job. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/129 "2021-06-14T18:26:47Z")
I knew something about that sounded familiar. Picture Steve as half-Gary Seven and half Quantum Leap’s Sam Beckett. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/130 "2021-06-14T19:38:53Z")
At the risk of detailing the thread, here’s a tweet thread by the director citing some inspirations that went into the first episode. Including Tony’s crash in Iron Man as mentioned, Wallace and Gromit, and Last of Us. [https://twitter.com/iamkateherron/status/1404500056384942081?s=19](https://twitter.com/iamkateherron/status/1404500056384942081?s=19) (Miller’s right, Steve would always fight evil, as hard as he could.) ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/131 "2021-06-14T20:38:31Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I’m not actually that confident that _Loki_ ’s show runner and writers are thinking that clearly about the situation Yeah, I agree. Their primary goal is to make an entertaining show, and I think they’ll succeed at that. But I won’t be surprised if it ends up that the time travel and alternate timeline mechanics don’t really hold up as a coherent system. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/132 "2021-06-14T20:43:51Z")
Don’t forget that Steve specifically promised Tony that he would make sure that ‘nothing in the present changed’ - which means also allowing the incidents that happened while Steve was a capsicle to occur just as they had. To my recollection - Peggy married - but we don’t know WHO she married - he hasn’t been introduced or shown - probably Steve Trevor. It’s a hellofa catch-22. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/133 "2021-06-14T20:57:20Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Don’t forget that Steve specifically promised Tony that he would make sure that ‘nothing in the present changed’ - which means also allowing the incidents that happened while Steve was a capsicle to occur just as they had. It’s explicitly impossible for that to happen. You can’t change the present by travelling to the past - doing that just creates an alternate timeline. Everything in the timeline you left stays exactly the way it was. This is why, for example, killing a time-travelling Thanos at the end of _Endgame_ didn’t undo everything he’d done in _Infinity War_. > [@simster](#): > > To my recollection - Peggy married - but we don’t know WHO she married - he hasn’t been introduced or shown - probably Steve Trevor. Not shown, but she does describe him at one point, and it’s pretty clearly not Steve. From _Winter Soldier_: “That was a difficult winter. A blizzard had trapped half our battalion behind the German line. Steve… Captain Rogers, he fought his way through a HYDRA blockade that had pinned our allies down for months. He saved over a thousand men, including the man who would… who would become my husband as it turned out.” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/134 "2021-06-14T21:50:50Z")
> [@Tusculan](#): > > My impression about Steve’s decision to lie low in his life with Peggy was that he was simply tired about his role of saviour of the world at the cost of any personal life at all. He had just participated in saving half of the universe. I can understand that he thinks enough is enough and may I please have some life of my own. And do you think Peggy would do the same? and if Peggy was out there fighting would Steve be happy sitting at home? Retired Steve makes zero sense, wherever he went he did everything he could to help. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/135 "2021-06-14T21:55:26Z")
That sounds like an Obi-Wan truth. Since Steve survived that blockade busting, he saved himself, as well as the thousand others - and Peggy wouldn’t want to reveal the time travel at that point anyway, so she had reason to be evasive. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/136 "2021-06-14T22:01:28Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > and Peggy wouldn’t want to reveal the time travel at that point anyway, so she had reason to be evasive. If the pause suggested by the ellipsis in @Miller’s quote of Peggy’s line there is actually in the film, it might suggest that the pause was intentional foreshadowing of the reveal at the end of _Endgame._ ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/137 "2021-06-14T22:45:56Z")
It is. It’s at 19:50 in Winter Soldier if you want to check it out. Then there’s [this article](https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/), where the writers of Endgame claim that Steve was always meant to be Peggy’s husband. Plus, when Steve found her desk in 1970, the only picture she had was of scrawny Steve. You’d think if she had an actual non-Steve husband, she’d have his picture instead/too. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/138 "2021-06-14T23:22:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s explicitly impossible for that to happen. You can’t change the present by travelling to the past - doing that just creates an alternate timeline. Everything in the timeline you left stays exactly the way it was. This is why, for example, killing a time-travelling Thanos at the end of _Endgame_ didn’t undo everything he’d done in _Infinity War_ . Never said anything about “undo” - said that the promise to Tony was “we have to get here” - since Steve knew the events that had taken place (JFK, etc) he also knew he couldn’t mess with them - essentially, since he was part of that timeline , he had already let them happen once, because they had already happened before he joined the timeline. I hate time travel - but ---- essentially we know that Steve ‘let them happen’ - because they did happen - and you can say that he used his knowledge of those ‘big events’ to make sure he didn’t prevent them from happening as well. What we don’t know is what, if any, struggle ensued internally - or what else he might have done as a ‘different hero’. It was his density, after all. as far as TimeTraveling Thanos - I agree - that was a jumped timeline - and the branch that was created with that jump was “pruned” by the TVA (off screen) and they didn’t come after him in the ‘sacred timeline’ because he was removed from it (adn that timeline is allowed to continue) what we are talking about here is if Steve jumped back and that is the ‘Sacred Timeline’ - What did Steve do and who was Peggy Married to? > [@Miller](#): > > “That was a difficult winter. A blizzard had trapped half our battalion behind the German line. Steve… Captain Rogers, he fought his way through a HYDRA blockade that had pinned our allies down for months. He saved over a thousand men, including the man who would… who would become my husband as it turned out.” He saved himself - had he not left the stage and taken that mission - he never would have become the Captain America we needed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/139 "2021-06-14T23:41:58Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Never said anything about “undo” - said that the promise to Tony was “we have to get here” - since Steve knew the events that had taken place (JFK, etc) he also knew he couldn’t mess with them - essentially, since he was part of that timeline , he had already let them happen once, because they had already happened before he joined the timeline. I’m not sure what you mean by “before he joined the timeline.” We don’t know anything that happened after Steve went back and stayed with Peggy, because any changes he makes in the past will not be reflected in the timeline he left. If the first thing he did after meeting up with Peggy was go out and kill a ten year old Lee Harvey Oswald, JFK would still be dead in the primary timeline. There’d be a parallel timeline, where JFK was never assassinated, but to the people in the timeline Steve left, nothing in their past would have changed at all. > [@simster](#): > > He saved himself - had he not left the stage and taken that mission - he never would have become the Captain America we needed. Peggy’s not talking about the prison break scene in _The First Avenger,_ which didn’t occur during a blizzard, and didn’t involve saving over a thousand men (much less Peggy herself). This is some other incident during the war that we never saw. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625/140 "2021-06-15T00:21:51Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > But I won’t be surprised if it ends up that the time travel and alternate timeline mechanics don’t really hold up as a coherent system. I’d be more surprised if it did! Some can be bootstrap paradox within the Sacred Timeline with Steve knowing that altering events doesn’t change anything just creates a different timeline that would get destroyed, and staying true to his promise to not change things. I’ll buy that as true to his character. Harder to be heroic by not doing but doing would causing only harms. But generally time travel storylines benefit from lots of looking the other way and ignoring inconsistencies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/loki-tv-series-discussion-spoilers/931625.md?page=8)