# London Hit By Terror Attacks (What is the appropriate response?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438 "2005-07-07T10:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/121 "2005-07-07T18:34:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about we preserve their lives first? No life, no civil rights. I take this kind of personal, because I’m next. After all, the Muslims have a beef about how we support the Israelis. When they ask the synogogues to register Jews so that the government can protect us, my name goes on a list. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/122 "2005-07-07T18:35:52Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > I think that the freedom and democracy thing is (mostly) bullshit as well, but I also disagree with your reasoning regarding interference. The western world has interfered (and still is) with a hell of a lot of areas of the world. Yet the major problems appear to be coming from those that are Islamic. > > This isn’t the typical bash on Islam. I understand that there are different subsections (just like almost any religion) that interpret the religion differently. But I do believe that for the terrorists, and fundamentalists, hate is not necessarily the right word. I think we disgust them. I think that our consumerism, open sexuality, attempts at full gender equality, media, and other things that make up our culture and society revolts them. > > I also believe that is something we are not going to easily resolve. You make some great points here, especially about reactions to American political interferencein other areas of the world. Where have the Central American terrorists been? Why no Vietnamese terrorists 30-40 years ago? As for the “not easy to resolve” point – I’ve had this sinking feeling, too. It really does seem that there isn’t room enough on Earth for both Islam and Western culture. It really looks to me like a situation of “two men enter … one man leaves.” At least with the US-vs-USSR ideological war post-WWII, there was political “room” for both parties to sentle into a “cold war”. But I can’t see that happening with Islamic fundamentalists. Maybe tensions can cool somehow … don’t really know. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/123 "2005-07-07T18:36:44Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > So…where’s the cause and effect between the USA’s actions and, well, anything else? If the USA’s actions had been successful (rather than some insane thrashing around) why did Madrid, Bali, and London happen? 1. I think the OBL was somewhat surprised by the USA’s reaction to 9/11. Before that, all we showed the world were half-measures and rhetoric. He might not have expected to have us crawl up his ass. 2. Madrid, Bali and London become easier targets because the USA is on a higher level of alert. It also makes the cause global and seeks to drive a wedge between the USA and allies. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/124 "2005-07-07T18:37:13Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > No civil rights, no life worth living. > > Enjoy, > Steven Oh really? My guess is that the victims, and their families, of 9/11 and todays bombings in England would disagree with that assertion. As would I. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/125 "2005-07-07T18:40:23Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > Actually give freedom and justice to all and don’t just make an empty claim. American blood and treasure is being spent in Iraq daily in an attempt to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/126 "2005-07-07T18:41:14Z")
Sorry about the multiple posts. Computer problem. Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/127 "2005-07-07T18:41:21Z")
magellan01 I am not an American but I am also from a democratic Western Nation who values the rights of its citizens. I have to ask you: Why try to fight for the United States of America if you are going to strip away that which makes it worth fighting for? It is easy to strip away the rights of others you find different because you think it has no effect on you. But you are wrong. Weaken one person’s rights and freedoms you open the doors for everyone’s rights to be stripped. Yes I understand you are scared but you have to take a second to remember that in this struggle Western democracies are worth fighting for because of their strengths… human rights and freedoms for all of our citizens. We must have the courage to fight against the fear and protect the very rights our enemy tries to use against us not because they are mere words and ideals but because they are worth fighting for… They are the things our grandparents died for. They are the things that generations of people strived and struggled for and the suggestion that we dash those ideals in a moment of cowardice, quite frankly, sicken me. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/128 "2005-07-07T18:44:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’ll speak for here in the US. Three quick things we should do immediately. > > 1. Fight Muslim terrorists by looking at Muslims. Yes, I mean the horrible word: PROFILE. > 2. Change the ridiculous law that airlines cannot give extra scrutiny to more than two people of middle eastern descent on any one flight. “What’s that, three tickets for Washington, DC, Muhammad?” > 3. Close our borders, which is what you have to do before you can control them. > > I would add that we need to deal with the mosques. We should ask for their cooperation in looking over their membership and their accounting. Those who are the side of peace should welcome this as the FBI might be able to see things that the leaders do not. If they decide they do not want to cooperate, close it. How is this supposed to root out terrorists? Do you hope that they carry their bombs when visiting a mosque? They might carry a card say “I am a terrorist”? If you are looking in mosques in your own country for terrorists why do you need to close your borders? If you hope to stop terrorists by closing your borders why are you looking in your own country? I have always been wary of the whole “if you are innocent, you have nothing to fear” argument. If I am innocent why should I have to suffer people trampling all over my rights? By stigmatising a whole section of the population you are only going to stir up resentment. Your assumption being that the terrorists are part of the mainstream muslim population. Unless you can show that this is the case you are committing the worst type of racial stereotyping. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/129 "2005-07-07T18:44:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I take this kind of personal, because I’m next. > After all, the Muslims have a beef about how we support the Israelis. > When they ask the synogogues to register Jews so that the government can protect us, my name goes on a list. I sympathize. But I think it’s one think to profile a group because of crimes that have been and are being commited and profile a group for specific protection. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/130 "2005-07-07T18:49:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh really? My guess is that the victims, and their families, of 9/11 and todays bombings in England would disagree with that assertion. As would I. They’d be wrong then and speaking from emotion. Giving up what makes us American’s (or makes the British British) in an attempt (one that, IMHO wouldn’t work anyway) at safety is too great a price to pay…even if we have to endure another 9/11 some day in the future. I’m sorry that you don’t see that…its sad really. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/131 "2005-07-07T18:51:41Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > No civil rights, no life worth living. > > Enjoy, > Steven It’s a bullshit dichotomy anyway. The implication that we can’t protect lives without shitting on civil rights is a bullshit assumption. The implication that turning ourselves into a fascist police state _will_ save lives is an even more bullshit assumption. As to the OP, the only proper response for us is to let British law enforcement do its job. We have no other role except, perhaps, to apologize for bringing this upon them with our own dishonesty in duping them into an illegal war. I would also hope that the Brits would pull their troops out of Iraq and let Bush clean up his own mess but I doubt that’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/132 "2005-07-07T18:52:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I sympathize. But I think it’s one think to profile a group because of crimes that have been and are being commited and profile a group for specific protection. Don’t you? Some people think being a Jew is a crime, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/133 "2005-07-07T18:53:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I sympathize. But I think it’s one think to profile a group because of crimes that have been and are being commited and profile a group for specific protection. Don’t you? No. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/134 "2005-07-07T18:55:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The implication that we can’t protect lives without shitting on civil rights is a bullshit assumption. Amen. Dio, you and I rarely agree, but you hit the nail on the head with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/135 "2005-07-07T18:57:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Some people think being a Jew is a crime, friend. ``` Is it ? :) Even if you don't get targeted by hate crime... profiling jews might make them more prone to spam mail and unwanted ads. :eek: ``` By magellan’s logic they should profile rednecks… after all they are very dangerous. Timothy McVeigh for example. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/136 "2005-07-07T18:57:35Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > imagine if the response to terrorist attacks were only police and investigative work. Terrorists being hunted down without great military shows. Simple straight international cooperation. By downplaying or giving little fuss to terrorist attacks… terrorists action would reap much less response. By creating panic and fear the western government have raised Al Qaeda onto a pedestal… helped create a greater myth of Bin Laden. > > Terrorists want attention… and attention has been amply given. Their causes highlighted. My sentiments exactly. Firstly I am saddened and angry at the same time, and my sympathy goes out to the injured and the relatives of those hurt and killed. What we need now is to focus on the injured and repairing the transport network. The we need a measured response as stated above, good honest police work. No spectacular military actions that in the end achieve nothing other than creating new enemies who desire martyrdom. Having a number of people in prison for life may not be the cathartic reaction some people require, but it is the right thing to do. I also agree that we must retain our freedoms and not remove freedoms of segments of society, otherwise what are we fighting for? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/137 "2005-07-07T19:03:50Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > No spectacular military actions that in the end achieve nothing other than creating new enemies who desire martyrdom. I don’t think anyone is calling for military action because of the London bombings. There is no country to attack. What is needed is for more people to realize that there is actually a war going on and that it might be a good idea to pull together rather than try to score political points. ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/138 "2005-07-07T19:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Wow. You are really more worried about people being profiled or mosques asked to (or mandated) that they cooperate than you are of more of your innocent countrymen an-women being blown up. WOW! You and I are just not going to see eye-to-eye on very much. That is not the only consequence though is it? Recent history does not lead one down that path of reasoning. The attacks of 9/11 eventually led to an environment where an invasion of Iraq was acceptable to the populace. Would the war in Iraq have happened if not for 9/11? Would the Madrid and London bombings have happened if not for the war in Iraq? How many people in Iraq, Madrid and London have died due to our responses to _that_ terrorist attack? (Again, I am not blaming anybody other than the terrorists for the Madrid, London bombings). Had we stopped in Afghanistan, hunting down the real people involved, how many deaths could have been saved? I blame people’s emotions and desire for revenge on everything after Afghanistan. And that is completely ignoring the removal of certain rights and freedoms. How many hundreds of thousands of people have died in the past supposedly defending those very things? Should the horrific, unnecessary death of some 50 people render all that sacrifice moot? Does it only count when those people die in another country fighting an overt, uniformed enemy? Terrorists, obviously, seek to cause as much fear and disruption to the ‘normal way of life’ as possible. By revoking certain rights and curtailing certain freedoms you only show that yes, we are indeed afraid. Mission accomplished Mr. Terrorist. I know, upon review, that it seems as though I am speaking callously of those people murdered today. That is most certainly not my intention. My hands still shake as I type and today’s events will be ingrained into my memories for a long time to come. > [@](#): > > I wish you, your family, and your countrymen have seen the last of these attacks. Thank you. I wish the same for you and yours. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/139 "2005-07-07T19:09:16Z")
Originally posted by \*\* Diogenes the Cynic\*\* > [@](#): > > - We have no other role except, perhaps, to apologize for bringing this upon them with our own dishonesty in duping them into an illegal war\* So you _do_ blame the Americans for the London bombings? ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438/140 "2005-07-07T19:09:35Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > American blood and treasure is being spent in Iraq daily in an attempt to do just that. I do not see the war in Iraq as justice served. I see it only as revenge embraced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-hit-by-terror-attacks-what-is-the-appropriate-response/311438.md?page=8)