# London Thanks the USAF for Their Support **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150 "2005-07-12T08:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/21 "2005-07-12T10:10:51Z")
“In this difficult hour, the people of Great Britain can know the American people stand with you” US president George W Bush Just not withing the M25. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/22 "2005-07-12T10:13:38Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I got a friggin’ Force Protection briefing in Puerto Rico, for crying out loud. We were banned from certain areas and specific businesses in San Juan, and with good reason. Once again, I understand all this. However, do you think there’s “good reason” for a blanket ban on London? Does the risk entailed measure up against the message such a ban gives out? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/23 "2005-07-12T10:15:02Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Any other assholish statements you wish to make? I’ll be here all day, so please, get it all out of your system. Why’s that beyond the pale? Bush has even publicaly stated that one of the reasons we’re fighting in Iraq is so we don’t have the face terrorists on our own soil. I’m sure the Iraqi civilians appreciate the milk of his human kindness. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/24 "2005-07-12T10:15:50Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I don’t know why this is such a big deal to you. Because _everybody else in the country_ managed to find a proportionate response to the attacks. > [@](#): > > Think of it this way: when there’s a car accident they roll fire trucks, even if there’s not a fire. Why? Because, at least here, the fire brigade are the ones that cut out trapped victims. > [@](#): > > we still have the conspiracy theory-type comments from the peanut gallery (“So there’s a clear, established plan…and it’s only being implemented by two bases. Hmmmm.”). Hmmmm, indeed. :rolleyes: Oh, for goodness sake. It’s not a conspiracy theory. I’m asking why, if there’s a blanket threat to US forces, are only two bases being issued with this instruction? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/25 "2005-07-12T10:16:24Z")
> [@Ithaka](#): > > Once again, I understand all this. However, do you think there’s “good reason” for a blanket ban on London? Does the risk entailed measure up against the message such a ban gives out? What message is that? That a commander is being careful and you’re upset about it? I’m sorry he didn’t ask you for your opinion first. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/26 "2005-07-12T10:16:43Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Any other assholish statements you wish to make? I’ll be here all day, so please, get it all out of your system. Quite possibly. As I said, I’ve had a bit of an upsetting week. Sorry if it bothers you. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/27 "2005-07-12T10:19:38Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > What message is that? That US forces consider London too dangerous to travel into. Would you answer the questions now? ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/28 "2005-07-12T10:21:33Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > As far as irrationality goes, I’ve explained it to you now three times, and yet we still have the conspiracy theory-type comments from the peanut gallery (“So there’s a clear, established plan…and it’s only being implemented by two bases. Hmmmm.”). Hmmmm, indeed. :rolleyes: Sorry to but in, but I thin myself and everyone here appreciates your argument and understands the reasons for these actions, but the problem is that it sends the wrong message to the terrorists. While we are doing our best to carry on as normal (which for me outside of London is admittedly relatively easy) our great allies are retreating to their bases. So much for not retreating in the face of terror. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/29 "2005-07-12T10:29:37Z")
**Ithaka** , perhaps [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325158) Great Debates thread might interest you? ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/30 "2005-07-12T10:36:08Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > **Ithaka** , perhaps [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325158) Great Debates thread might interest you? I’m there, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/31 "2005-07-12T10:45:27Z")
[There was a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6356554) in MPSIMS that mentioned the USAF directive before the current OP, but his seems to be where the action is.] 1. **Airman Doors** , I thank you personally for the sacrifices that you make, as a member of the US Armed Forces, to defend the US and her allies. I also extend these thanks to your wife and son, Dopers both (the latter the youngest ever to be hailed by Cecil, IIRC!), for their share of the burden. Since I myself have a family member in the US Marine Corps (recently returned from Iraq), I am one of those torn between gratitude to those professionals in uniform who perform their duty, and dislike of the Commander-in-Chief who chose to go to war on what I view to be illegal and immoral grounds. 2. The United States Air Force is a fighting force with a proud history (and, incidentally, is just about the only military branch of any country in the world that I can think of that has such total and massive superiority in its field that it can expect almost zero casualties – in the field, due to enemy action – in any forseeable combat mission). 3. If the USAF had said “nobody off base in the UK except those in civilian clothes with no identifiable US markings”, everyone in this thread would (I think) be OK with that. 4. The apparent order of “No UK-based USAF within the M25 ring road” is just stupid stupid stupid. As others said, it sends **precisely** the wrong message. Also, (trust me) if “they” want USAF blood, they’ll be prepared to extend their reach beyond the M25. Conclusion: in any other week, this would be a dumb pronouncement. In **this particular week** (beyond Friday July 8), it’s not only dumb, it undoes a lot of the good that the “screw’em” attitude that the British in word and deed (and GWB, verbally) have achieved. [**Antonius Block** , Londoner born-and-raised.] ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/32 "2005-07-12T10:45:36Z")
> [@Stryfe](#): > > While we are doing our best to carry on as normal (which for me outside of London is admittedly relatively easy) our great allies are retreating to their bases. So much for not retreating in the face of terror. Exactly, and given that people who were at the centre of these things, who were very much in the immediate vicinity when it happened, are getting on with their lives, going back to said places (albeit with some apprehension), and not letting the attacks ruin their normal lives, then it seems a touch disproportionate, one might even say cowardly, that the US military is prescribing blanket bans on London. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/33 "2005-07-12T10:51:45Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > one might even say cowardly, that the US military is prescribing blanket bans on London. Sorry for the double post, but I feel that I should clarify, that I do not, in any way, think that the US military are cowards, its just that this announcement, as others have said, flies in the face of the prevailing attitude in the UK, and sends the _ **impression** _ to both the UK and to the terrorists, that even if London isn’t running scared, the Americans most certainly are. Again, I understand _why_ the announcement has been made, I just don’t think it sends the right message in the face of things. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/34 "2005-07-12T11:06:52Z")
The link in the OP now states that the order has been rescinded. The whole thing rates a giant “meh” from me. US personnel ordered to avoid an area that’s a likely target for attack. Common sense. I only wish the same order would be issued for Iraq, where actual US troops are actually in immediate known danger. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/35 "2005-07-12T11:07:57Z")
Incidentally, it looks like the advice has been recinded – [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4673987.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4673987.stm) mainly because of concerns that it sends out hte wrong signals… ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/36 "2005-07-12T11:10:14Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > US personnel ordered to avoid an area that’s a likely target for attack. Common sense. But the point is that there was no evidence that they were more at danger in London than in Cambridgeshire, or in Germany, or in Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/37 "2005-07-12T11:14:02Z")
Like I said. Temporary. Mountain. Molehill. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/38 "2005-07-12T11:21:20Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Like I said. Temporary. Mountain. Molehill. Like you said, “a few weeks”? Good to know the USAF has confidence in its plans, and examines and revises them in due course. And the timing of scrapping the instructions, within hours of them becoming headline news, is purely coincidental. It couldn’t possibly be that they were an ill-thought-out kneejerk reaction, which caused bad publicity both for London and for the USAF, and were retracted as soon as it became clear how silly they were. No sirree. That wouldn’t be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/39 "2005-07-12T11:34:06Z")
Yup, looks like they’ve come to there senses. And I agree, I’m sure that lifting the ban this morning was all part of the “clear, long established, and perfectly reasonable plan for Force Protection”. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/40 "2005-07-12T11:35:57Z")
Or even their senses. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=3)