# London Thanks the USAF for Their Support **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150 "2005-07-12T08:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/81 "2005-07-12T13:47:11Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > However, a Colonel or a General should be thinking politically – as much as it sucks to have to do so – and a wise one would forward such politically-charged decisions up the chain, or split the difference with a policy that encourages vigilance but doesn’t forbid any areas. Bullshit. It is a General’s or Colonel’s responsibility to look after his people, FIRST. I understand that sometimes, as unfortunate as it is, politics comes first. It shouldn’t be the first thing though. Politics takes a backseat to peoples lives, period. I can’t get up in arms about a General thinking about his people first. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/82 "2005-07-12T13:49:15Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > In no way did this discredit the USAF or London It certainly discreditied the USAF, or at least parts of the command structure, in my eyes and in those of many other people in this thread. And in the eyes of many people in this country. A slight aside…if they weren’t allowed inside the M25, that included banning travel to major RAF bases at Northolt and Biggin Hill. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/83 "2005-07-12T13:51:37Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > once bombs have gone off, that there might be more (and even more reasonable to assume that there are active terrorists around) I’d have thought it a reasonable conclusion that after a such few bombs exploded, there might be a few _less_ terrorists around 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/84 "2005-07-12T13:54:04Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Because their friend, the people hurt, are trying to send a message of defiance by continuing as normal and it is completely undermined by the sight of the USAF cowering behind its barbed wire against the statistically unlikely chance that if there were more bombs one of the few soldiers or family, compared to the millions in London, might get hurt. > > The risk is absolutely negligible but the offence to your allies and the signal it send to the enemy is not. I don’t give a fuck if it’s normal procedure. It’s kneejerk assholism not to actually assess the situation. If it’s safe for civilians and tourists, its safe. > > As for the imagined ‘Intel’. :rolleyes: Seen any WMD’s lately? > > This is headline news in the UK and has done the image of the USA great harm. I still don’t understand how the USAF and there policy speak for all of London. As for the intel remark? You are right. Since the intel about WMD in Iraq was wrong that means we should totally ignore intel from now on, forever, about every issue. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/85 "2005-07-12T14:00:23Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > It certainly discreditied the USAF, or at least parts of the command structure, in my eyes and in those of many other people in this thread. And in the eyes of many people in this country. I’d be willing to bet you that most if not all of these people already thought poorly of the US and disagreed with our foreign policy, especially in Iraq. Having a predisposition against US armed forces is the only way I can see anyone with the intelligence the good lord gave turnips getting upset over such a manufactured and imaginary “slap in the face” from the USAF. For Christ’s sake the exact same type of orders were issued regarding New York City after 9/11! ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/86 "2005-07-12T14:01:31Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Yeah, the Americans would be **bound** to have far better intelligence than the UK intelligence. > About things that are happening within the UK. I can see that :rolleyes: > What nonsense. That sort of attitude “We are the Americans and therfore we know best” is exactly what people are complaining about in this thread. There, just exactly what you’ve said in that post. Don’t be stupid. Where in any of my posts did I say that or even imply that? The comment I made had to do with the fact that there could be conflicting intel and that they should error on the side of safety until it is straight. Oh and BTW… fuck off. I don’t have anything against anyone here. I don’t think “the US is the best ever and all others are the suxxors11!11!!” This discussion has to do with actions that are always followed regardless of where it happened. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/87 "2005-07-12T14:01:32Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > I still don’t understand how the USAF and there policy speak for all of London The perception of many, from afar, will have been “Well, even the Air Force aren’t safe, and they _must_ know what they’re talking about” ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/88 "2005-07-12T14:04:34Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > For Christ’s sake the exact same type of orders were issued regarding New York City after 9/11! When the **entire** country was in lockdown, I seem to recall, and everything stopped running. If that had happened in London last Thursday, then fair enough, but it didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/89 "2005-07-12T14:06:55Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I’d have thought it a reasonable conclusion that after a such few bombs exploded, there might be a few _less_ terrorists around 😉 Well, yes, but winkiness aside, as far as I’m aware there is still no concrete proof that all or any of these were suicide bombings, so there is and was plenty of reason to suspect that there are still active terrorists around. I dunno; I’ve just got back to London after a weekend away from news access, and my feelings can roughly be summed up as “we’re upset about the _what_ now?” England’s return to high-order batting collapses is a more cosmic matter for consternation, to be honest. USAF’s just doing what it does, and it didn’t mean anything by it. But now there’s a hoo-ha, so I guess some sort of resolution will be demanded. I don’t even understand why a fuss was made in the first place. It’s not like we Londoners track the migratory patterns of USAF officers on leave in order to glean our impressions of London’s state of security. I don’t think I’ve seen a uniformed US pilot in London in the three years I’ve lived here, and it hasn’t bothered me any… ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/90 "2005-07-12T14:10:36Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > The perception of many, from afar, will have been “Well, even the Air Force aren’t safe, and they _must_ know what they’re talking about” The perception I am getting is that we are supposed to pretend nothing happened and expose ourselves to danger just to try and make a point to a group who couldn’t care less! Damn… the bombings would have stopped if the USAF hadn’t declared a ban on London for a few days. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/91 "2005-07-12T14:12:45Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > Don’t be stupid. Where in any of my posts did I say that or even imply that? The comment I made had to do with the fact that there could be conflicting intel and that they should error on the side of safety until it is straight. > > Oh and BTW… fuck off. I don’t have anything against anyone here. I don’t think “the US is the best ever and all others are the suxxors11!11!!” This discussion has to do with actions that are always followed regardless of where it happened. Have a peep up this very page You said > [@drgnrdr07](#): > > This is a good point but if the intels are conflicting I would rather be safe than sorry. So, who is it we’re calling stupid here? Me? Really? 😃 In that case, I might have to let you in on a little secret - coming from you I’ll wear it as a garland of honour With a u And I should fuck off, should I? Well, I might; but I might not and if I\* was\* to, it wouldn’t be because you objected to me, of course - it would be because it’s standard operating procedure. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/92 "2005-07-12T14:13:52Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > I still don’t understand how the USAF and there policy speak for all of London. As for the intel remark? You are right. Since the intel about WMD in Iraq was wrong that means we should totally ignore intel from now on, forever, about every issue. :rolleyes: Actually yes, I don’t now believe one word of US Intel or any Intel sourced back to it. Fool me once etc. And if you can’t see why the USAF acting for all the world like a bunch of gutless cowards instead of saying, yup, we’re right there, we ain’t going to be scared, isn’t an insult then you need a reality check. Did US servicemen stay clear of London in WW2 or did they join Londoners in defying Hitler? If they had, what sort of message do you think it would have sent? Thank God they at were not commanded by spineless assholes with no sense of proportion. You want us to support your damn fool war the bloody least the USAF can do is not undermine our response to terrorist attacks by saying its too dangerous to be in London and the least you can do is stop being an apologist for this screw-up. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/93 "2005-07-12T14:14:53Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > When the **entire** country was in lockdown, I seem to recall, and everything stopped running. If that had happened in London last Thursday, then fair enough, but it didn’t. IIRC, the exact same orders were issued after the Oklahoma City bombing too. How many times do you have to be told that this was not a swipe at London, but simply long standing USAF policy regarding terrorist attacks? It makes perfect sense, too. When something like this occurs, your priorities are to: 1. Get your people out of the area and count noses 2. Evaluate the situation 3. Determine what further measures, if any, are appropriate. Simple common sense, and exactly what the USAF did. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/94 "2005-07-12T14:16:58Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > The perception I am getting is that we are supposed to pretend nothing happened and expose ourselves to danger just to try and make a point to a group who couldn’t care less No, the perception is that there was no danger on Friday, or over the weekend, and nobody acted as if there was - except the USAF, who decided that they know better than the Metropolitan Police, the Home Office and MI5. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/95 "2005-07-12T14:19:16Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > IIRC, the exact same orders were issued after the Oklahoma City bombing too. How many times do you have to be told that this was not a swipe at London, but simply long standing USAF policy regarding terrorist attacks? It makes perfect sense, too. When something like this occurs, your priorities are to: > > 1. Get your people out of the area and count noses > 2. Evaluate the situation > 3. Determine what further measures, if any, are appropriate. > > Simple common sense, and exactly what the USAF did. OK. I accept that point, its SOP for the USAF. And we know that it wasn’t a swipe at London, it just felt that way. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/96 "2005-07-12T14:20:43Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#): > > Bullshit. It is a General’s or Colonel’s responsibility to look after his people, FIRST. I understand that sometimes, as unfortunate as it is, politics comes first. It shouldn’t be the first thing though. Politics takes a backseat to peoples lives, period. I can’t get up in arms about a General thinking about his people first. If that’s the way that American military commanders are supposed to think, then in thelong term the attitude is very damaging, politically. It says, “We Americans are very important, and the rest of you, even our close allies like the British, are much less important.” That’s not the way to win friends in foreign countries. In my opinion, a base commander should first assess if there is an obvious immediate threat (and not the vague possibility of one), and if there isn’t one, get on the phone to the local emergency services and say, “Is there anything that we can do to help?” A few American paramedics helping on the scene in London would do a lot more for international relations than locking down the base until you look absurd. And if the local emergencyu services say they don’t need your help, then just say, “Well call on us any time that we can help!” ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/97 "2005-07-12T14:21:10Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > You want us to support your damn fool war the bloody least the USAF can do is not undermine our response to terrorist attacks by saying its too dangerous to be in London and the least you can do is stop being an apologist for this screw-up. Oh yes, you’re coming at this from a neutral POV. No anti-US bias there, nosiree! Oh and Dublin11? Drgnrdr07 just said that one should err on the side of caution if different intel data contradicts each other. Nowhere did I see him saying that U.S. intel data was better than British intel data. That’s a projection you’re making I’m afraid, it could just as easily be the other way around, in which case I think the appropriate response would be…to err on the side of caution. ---
**Author:** ![drgnrdr07](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71e660/32.png) [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/98 "2005-07-12T14:22:46Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > Have a peep up this very page > You said > So, who is it we’re calling stupid here? Me? Really? 😃 > In that case, I might have to let you in on a little secret - coming from you I’ll wear it as a garland of honour > With a u > And I should fuck off, should I? Well, I might; but I might not and if I\* was\* to, it wouldn’t be because you objected to me, of course - it would be because it’s standard operating procedure. All I said was that if there was conflicting intel (which we have no idea whether or not there is) one saying it is safe and one saying it isn’t we should act like there is danger until it is resolved. If fucking off is SOP for you then go right ahead. I won’t perceive an imagined slight out of it either way. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/99 "2005-07-12T14:24:01Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > And we know that it wasn’t a swipe at London, it just felt that way. Now THAT I understand completely, I would prolly feel the same way if the situation was reversed. I’m just trying to get people to look at the situation objectively and not emotionally. Not always an easy thing for human beings to do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/100 "2005-07-12T14:25:39Z")
Obviously the London citizens have more balls than the American Military. Perhaps the USAF can employ Londoners to hold their guys hands while in town? I kid. I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=6)