# London Thanks the USAF for Their Support **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150 "2005-07-12T08:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/141 "2005-07-13T05:15:22Z")
I liked the account of the British guy sitting in a cafe near one of the IRA blasts and it blew the dishes away and knocked his family out of their chairs. He just sat up and requested that his meal and tea be replaced. Real Stiff upper lip and all that . Of course, he did nothing to help the injured, made no notice of the terror, GOOD SHOW that… Showed what a great London man he was fer sure, fer sure… Showed that typical English disdain for the suffering of others. Yepper, that is a role model for the world. Shows care for the family, for his neighbors and all that. Yepper, what a great man that was. Of course he KNEW that the danger was over. Yes sir, knew within seconds of the blast. Really had his families welfare in mind. Got to love that sort of stuff. He is my hero … Great example of common sense. \*:: does not apply to those in this thread that actually do have common sense. ::: \* ---
**Author:** ![Lt\_AF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecccb3/32.png) [@Lt\_AF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lt_AF)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/142 "2005-07-13T05:32:20Z")
Active duty AF Officer checking in here. I wanna make a point clear here to all the folks bashing the USAF for the decision that they made: We don’t have to justify it to ANY foreign nationals. Not even US civilians. My first obligation is to the mission. No mission impact by those bombings. My second obligation is to my troops and their safety. Easy choice here. Restrict movement until USAF intel clears the area. I don’t give flying FUCK what the local populace FEELS is safe. I haven’t been personally charged with their protection. I will leave that to the local authorities. That is THEIR job. If they want to have a big ole picnic in the middle of the crater because it is “so safe” then so be it. Get a grip on your sensitive side UKers. This is standard USAF response to local threat. And I guarunfuckingtee that you have more cops patrolling in that area of town NOW than you did BEFORE the bombings. That alone tells me that your own leadership doesn’t REALLY think things are 100% normal. (I’d love to pull all of our troops the fuck out of Europe anyway, but thats for another thread…) ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/143 "2005-07-13T05:55:00Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I liked the account of the British guy sitting in a cafe near one of the IRA blasts and it blew the dishes away and knocked his family out of their chairs. He just sat up and requested that his meal and tea be replaced. Real Stiff upper lip and all that . > > Of course, he did nothing to help the injured, made no notice of the terror, GOOD SHOW that… Showed what a great London man he was fer sure, fer sure… > > Showed that typical English disdain for the suffering of others. Great story, **GusNSpot**! :dubious: In fact, it’s touched me to such an extent that I think I’d like to read the original account. Do you think you could perhaps point me in the right direction? ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/144 "2005-07-13T06:00:49Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Of course, he did nothing to help the injured, made no notice of the terror, GOOD SHOW that… Showed what a great London man he was fer sure, fer sure… > > Showed that typical English disdain for the suffering of others. > > Yepper, that is a role model for the world. Shows care for the family, for his neighbors and all that. Yepper, what a great man that was. > > Of course he KNEW that the danger was over. Yes sir, knew within seconds of the blast. Really had his families welfare in mind. Got to love that sort of stuff. He is my hero … Great example of common sense. Better that he picked himself up and laid into the nearest Muslim. What the hell is wrong with some people? Is the American media so poor that they have not effectively conveyed the message that Londoners _were_ helping those injured. Is the only message you get from the ‘Blitz spirit’ is that Londoners continue on, ignoring those suffering, just to metaphorically shove two fingers up to their attackers? Bollocks. There were 700 people injured and 4 trains full of people to evacuate. People didn’t just continue on and ignore those piling out of the tubes with blood pouring from their faces. It’s bloody insulting to even imply such a thing. People were rushing to help those they could, stores closed early just so that they could provide the rescue effort with food, or supplies. Papers were filled with inspirational stories, detailing how people pulled together to help each other. The so called spirit of London just means that, after the clean-up and rescue, the terrorists will not change our way of life. We\* will be back on those tubes that were bombed only days before. We will be back on those buses despite the potential danger. Courage: ‘The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.’ \* That’s\* the Londoner spirit. We will not react by introducing our own patriot act. We will not react by making every Muslim in the country feel as though they’re under suspicion. We will not continue to bring up 7/7 years after the event in an attempt to score a cheap political point through evocation of emotion alone. We will not pick a random resource high, dictator led country, to take our anger out on. We _will_ bring the bastards to justice and get on with our lives. And all you can take from it is a straw man and a reason to insult people you obviously know fuck all about. ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/145 "2005-07-13T06:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I wanna make a point clear here to all the folks bashing the USAF for the decision that they made: We don’t have to justify it to ANY foreign nationals. Not even US civilians. If only that were restricted to this, relatively speaking, minor incident… Eh? ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/146 "2005-07-13T06:28:44Z")
> [@Lt AF](#): > > a point clear here to all the folks bashing the USAF for the decision that they made: We don’t have to justify it to ANY foreign nationals. Not even US civilians. Actually, in the long run, the USAF **does** have to justify its policy decisions to US civilians, via Congress. Not that it’s likely in this case, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/147 "2005-07-13T06:49:48Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > We will be back on those buses despite the potential danger. Courage: ‘The state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery.’ \* That’s\* the Londoner spirit. **Jinks** , I am not attempting to disagree with you in the slightest here. I only wish to have clarification. You are stating here that Londoners returned to a normal life _in spite of_ danger; and yet elsewhere in the thread it is asserted—by some, perhaps not by you—that the US Air Force was remiss in abandoning the London area when it was “safe.” Which way do you, personally, believe it was? Do you subscribe to the notion that the London area was “safe” and that the US Air Force should have accepted British intel on the matter? Or are you asserting that it was, indeed, dangerous, thereby justifying the caution shown? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/148 "2005-07-13T07:12:28Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > Better that he picked himself up and laid into the nearest Muslim. I’m _fairly_ sure from the rest of your post that you don’t mean this the way it sounds, i.e. that every Londoner should lay into the nearest Muslim. You may want to clarify this… ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/149 "2005-07-13T07:57:47Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > That the clearer heads of Londoners realised within _hours_ that normality could resume. And enormous military beuraucracies make decisions slowly. If you want to let that hurt your feelings, well, go right ahead. > [@](#): > > I have wonderful confidence in my Suffolk guests, knowing that the first sign of trouble causes them to hide for three days…isn’t that what you describe? Frankly, I find this entire conversation silly, but I have several responses: (1) Four bombs going off, dozens dead = “the first sign of trouble”? (2) No one in the military, at least in peacetime, ever got fired for being TOO cautious. (3) As someone else pointed out, however pissed of Londoners are right now (and are they really pissed off? still? has this issue not yet blown over?), how much MORE pissed off would they be if, a day later, someone had tossed a grenade at a US serviceperson and it had killed some English schoolchildren as well? (4) I just don’t quite see how that decision was supposed to be made so quickly. I’m sure the Air Force has reams of procedures to follow in all situations. And I guarantee you that after a terrorist attack on a major city near a base, one of the steps on the list has never been, at least until now, “figure out how when the city is safe AS SOON AS FUCKING POSSIBLE lest a delay of EVEN TWO DAYS some be construed as a ginormous national insult”. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/150 "2005-07-13T08:32:25Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > I liked the account of the British guy sitting in a cafe near one of the IRA blasts and it blew the dishes away and knocked his family out of their chairs. He just sat up and requested that his meal and tea be replaced. Real Stiff upper lip and all that . > > Of course, he did nothing to help the injured, made no notice of the terror, GOOD SHOW that… Showed what a great London man he was fer sure, fer sure… > > Showed that typical English disdain for the suffering of others. > > Yepper, that is a role model for the world. Shows care for the family, for his neighbors and all that. Yepper, what a great man that was. > > Of course he KNEW that the danger was over. Yes sir, knew within seconds of the blast. Really had his families welfare in mind. Got to love that sort of stuff. He is my hero … Great example of common sense. > > \*:: does not apply to those in this thread that actually do have common sense. ::: \* Yepper, it was real good of you to take five minutes away from fucking your sister to share that piece of anti-English bigotry with us, you slack-jawed gum-chewing drooling inbread evolutionary throwback. Now go stick your head in a blender. _typical English disdain for the suffering of others…_ :rolleyes: You, sir, are a cunt. ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/151 "2005-07-13T08:50:48Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > **Jinks** , I am not attempting to disagree with you in the slightest here. I only wish to have clarification. > > You are stating here that Londoners returned to a normal life _in spite of_ danger; and yet elsewhere in the thread it is asserted—by some, perhaps not by you—that the US Air Force was remiss in abandoning the London area when it was “safe.” Which way do you, personally, believe it was? > > Do you subscribe to the notion that the London area was “safe” and that the US Air Force should have accepted British intel on the matter? Or are you asserting that it was, indeed, dangerous, thereby justifying the caution shown? You make a very good point. There was some uncertainty about the situation on the day following the bombings, even most Londoners stayed home, the underground was virtually deserted despite being in almost full operation. Nobody knew if the bombers had died in the blasts or if they were still at large. The USAF, in my opinion, would have been right to suggest to their troops to avoid London centre. Perhaps even over the weekend too. Come Monday most Londoners were back to work and the underground was in full use again. Perhaps not the full 3 million commuters but it must have been close. Politicians were making it known that they were using the tubes as always too. The call was being made for people to continue their daily lives. And yet… I remember a piece the BBC did on Monday. It was a radio call in show (on TV!), one women rang in to say how she was tired of being referred to as brave, that she was very afraid to use public transport but that she had no choice. She had a job to do and could not afford to stay off any longer. I still consider her very courageous and yet, i see her point. There was still uncertainty, there _is_ still uncertainty. People _are_ still afraid and extra vigilant. Now i am beginning to understand that the USAF has an obligation to mother their recruits. There _was_ still a possibility of the bombers being at large and planning another attack. If an American military personnel had died in a London bomb, after the first round of attacks, i imagine some quarters of the American public would be in uproar. I may have wished that they’d helped show a united front, hoped that they would have shown the courage and determination of the Londoners; but i am beginning to understand why that was not possible. They were protecting themselves first, thinking of morale (outside the base) second. Disappointing, perhaps, but also understandable. ---
**Author:** ![Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d9b06d/32.png) [@Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinks)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/152 "2005-07-13T08:54:58Z")
> [@Angua](#): > > I’m _fairly_ sure from the rest of your post that you don’t mean this the way it sounds, i.e. that every Londoner should lay into the nearest Muslim. You may want to clarify this… I was being facetious, overreacting, attacking my own straw man. I apologise if anybody took offence by it (besides the person i was replying to). I wish i could remove that one line. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/153 "2005-07-13T09:17:29Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > I was being facetious, overreacting, attacking my own straw man. I apologise if anybody took offence by it (besides the person i was replying to). I wish i could remove that one line. I was just a bit concerned as to how it sounded, and being a British Muslim, I could see how one could take offence very very easily. Particularly considering the nature of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/154 "2005-07-13T09:17:31Z")
Would people please stop justifying the USAF actions by saying “It’s standard procedure”? _We get that_. Many of us think it’s a really stupid procedure. If you’re incapable of questioning whether the procedure should exist or not, then piss off. And for those who say the USAF doesn’t have to justify itself to anyone - remind me why they’re in Britain in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/155 "2005-07-13T10:15:30Z")
I said I’d dropped this but as OP I thought I’d just add two points as the thread seems to be carrying on. I was at the Hampton Court Flower Show on Sunday along with thousands of other Londoners and tourists, many of whom travelled there by public transport. We had a picnic in the sun and I drank far too much Pims. This was on a day that the USAF was telling its people and their families that London should be avoided completely. I understand the points that the more measured of you are making, but I still think this decision was badly thought out and regrettable. Secondly, I’d just like to agree with **Malacandra**. **GusNSpot** , you are a great, steaming, smelly cunt and a disgrace to your country. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/156 "2005-07-13T11:00:04Z")
> [@Ithaka](#): > > Secondly, I’d just like to agree with **Malacandra**. **GusNSpot** , you are a great, steaming, smelly cunt and a disgrace to your country. Can I just emphasise that “disgrace to your country” bit - as I do not for an instant believe that **GusNSpot** ’s views are those of the typical American? ---
**Author:** ![Domokun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Domokun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Domokun)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/157 "2005-07-13T11:02:28Z")
Mel Gibson has a lot to answer for. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/158 "2005-07-13T11:07:38Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > > [@GusNSpot](#): > > > > Bigotted nonsense > > Yepper, it was real good of you to take five minutes away from fucking your sister to share that piece of anti-English bigotry with us, you slack-jawed gum-chewing drooling inbread evolutionary throwback. Now go stick your head in a blender. > > _typical English disdain for the suffering of others…_ :rolleyes: You, sir, are a cunt. Sir, I have a cunt. It’s one of my favorite parts of my anatomy and a few gentleman have also commented on it favorably. I personally would prefer you not insult such a wondrous, joy-giving part of my body by comparing it to someone who would spout such nonsense. You see, unlike **GusNSpot** ’s post, my cunt actually gives pleasure to more than one person! 😉 With respect to you, sir, but none whatsoever to **GusNSpot** CJ ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/159 "2005-07-13T13:53:33Z")
**Siege** , I am quietly confident that your cunt is a marvel among cunts, and but for extenuating circumstances, including the width of the Atlantic Ocean and the fact that both our religious sensibilities would be violated (insofar as I am already wedded to another cunt-possessing person), I would gladly make its closer acquaintance in the interests of endorsing the opinions of the gentlemen referenced above. How about I amend my earlier statement to “You, sir, are a cunt, and that is an insult to cunts”? Does that fly? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150/160 "2005-07-13T14:43:13Z")
> [@Jinks](#): > > What the hell is wrong with some people? Is the American media so poor that they have not effectively conveyed the message that Londoners _were_ helping those injured. Is the only message you get from the ‘Blitz spirit’ is that Londoners continue on, ignoring those suffering, just to metaphorically shove two fingers up to their attackers? Bollocks. No, I’m pretty sure that’s the message most Americans received from the media. The fact that there is an asshole here who apparently did not is quite likely the exception, rather than the rule. Thanks for using the rest of your post to play, “Our response to suffering is better than yours,” however. I appreciate having our own tragedies and responses thereto mocked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/london-thanks-the-usaf-for-their-support/312150.md?page=9)