# LonesomePolecat: Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189 "2004-05-20T14:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/21 "2004-05-20T19:57:57Z")
What I cannot quite agree with is the OP’s statement that “even if the worst is true”, i.e. guns were being shot off at a wedding, only a “fucking asshole” would say it was the victims’ own fault. It depends on who you consider the victims. The dumbasses who were actually shooting the guns certainly brought this on themselves. Bystanders who also got killed - they were the actual victims. Shooting guns in a country engulfed by war seems to me to be inviting return fire, cultural traditions notwithstanding. In fact, shooting guns randomly into the air for any reason is fucking stupid. If you’re saying that Iraqis somehow do not grasp this concept, then your opinion of Iraqis must be very low indeed. This celebratory shooting of guns business really pisses me off. Mexicans do it in Los Angeles, and whenever someone gets hurt, you never hear anyone saying publicly “What a stupid fucking thing to do.” It’s as if we are afraid to apply the same standards of common sense to Mexicans (or Iraqis). I cannot believe that the majority of Mexicans or Iraqis don’t react to events like this the same way most Americans do - with disdain and disgust toward the shooters. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/22 "2004-05-20T20:08:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > if my family were Iraqis, I would advise them to be extremely careful and not to fire off any machine guns Because, after all, Iraq isn’t their country any more, and they have to avoid pissing off the new owners… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/23 "2004-05-20T20:26:46Z")
For some reason, I got “Rhinestone Cowboy” stuck in my head when I read the title. **sung to the tune of Rhinestone Cowbay** \* I’ve been walkin’ these boards so long Singin’ the same old song I know every sensative new age guy of StraightDope Where hustle’s the name of the game And puppet guys get washed away like the grapist and the hamburgler There’s been a load of computin’ On the road to my use of the word “Patootin” But I’m gonna be where the CRT’s are shinin’ on me LonesomePolecat: Asshole Riding out on a Dell in a circle-jerk rodeo LonesomePolecat: Asshole Getting posts and pittings from people I don’t even know Making facts up as I go Well, I really don’t mind the illusion That I jump to a conclusion But you’re down when you’re ridin’ and aministration that’s takin’ the long way And I dream of the things I’ll do With a WMD and a SCOTUS tucked inside my shoe There’ll be a load of compromisin’ On the road to my horizon But I’m gonna be where the CRTs are shinin’ on me LonesomePolecat: Asshole Riding out on a Dell in a circle-jerk rodeo LonesomePolecat: Asshole Getting posts and pittings from people I don’t even know Making up facts as I go LonesomePolecat: Asshole Riding out on a Dell in a circle-jerk rodeo FADE LonesomePolecat: Asshole Getting posts and pittings from people I don’t even know\* (Sorry LP, I don’t know you from shinola, but when the creative juices start flowin…) ---
**Author:** ![FunkyMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c6cbf5/32.png) [@FunkyMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/24 "2004-05-20T22:10:48Z")
I would sure as hell hope my 2 buddies serving in Iraq right now would have the common sense to smoke whoever the hell was shooting at them. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/25 "2004-05-20T22:16:11Z")
> [@FunkyMonkey](#): > > I would sure as hell hope my 2 buddies serving in Iraq right now would have the common sense to smoke whoever the hell was shooting at them. Even if whoever they “smoked” wasn’t actually shooting at them in the first place? Forgive me, but that sounds an awful lot like, “shoot first and ask questions later.” ---
**Author:** ![FunkyMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c6cbf5/32.png) [@FunkyMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunkyMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/26 "2004-05-20T22:22:26Z")
If they had live fire coming in their direction, I wouldn’t expect them to jump up and ask “Alright, who the hell is shooting at me, put a hand up please.” I would expect them to exercise some amount of discretion, but not at the risk of their life. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/27 "2004-05-20T22:26:39Z")
As would I. On the other hand, if they were to hear a loud bang off in the distance, I would hope their first response wouldn’t be to lob a few thousands rounds and several dozen grenades in its direction . ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/28 "2004-05-20T22:46:43Z")
**Lib** , if you wanted the opinions of only those who have friends and family over there AND only the opinions of those who agree with you, you just had to say so. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/29 "2004-05-20T22:52:11Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Even if whoever they “smoked” wasn’t actually shooting at them in the first place? > > Forgive me, but that sounds an awful lot like, “shoot first and ask questions later.” They fired shots first. A gun is a weapon. Do I need to say that again? I think I do. A gun is a **weapon!** In battle situations, when you hear live fire, guess what you’re supposed to do? Make sure the guy isn’t one of your own, and if he _even looks_ like he’s shooting at you, you return fire. I wasn’t there and I can’t say whether or not it really _looked_ like our soldiers were being fired upon, so the possibility certainly exists that they overreacted. All bullets land eventually, and if they hit someone, that person could very well die. Discharging a firearm into the air for no good reason is fucking stupid. End of story. In a hostile environment such actions need to be treated first as being potentially hostile, you don’t fire a gun unless you’re at a shooting range or trying to kill someone. It’s a damn shame that people were moronic enough to discharge weapons into the air in a hostile environment. It’s even more of a shame that some of those morons got shot, since they were just “celebrating”. Maybe since they have a different culture than ours, we should accept their wanton discharging of assault weapons into the air. Maybe our soldiers need to start asking every person that shoots at or near them a series of probing questions in order to find out what’s _really_ going on in this maniac’s mind. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/30 "2004-05-20T23:09:33Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > In battle situations, when you hear live fire, guess what you’re supposed to do? Was this a battle situation or not? None of the reports coming out about this issue match up and we don’t know. And the war is supposed to be over, anyhow; we’ll have to _eventually_ learn to ask first and shoot later, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/31 "2004-05-20T23:30:19Z")
I’m affraid I might join the minority on this one and say anyone fireing weapons in a place as dangerous as Iraq is asking for trouble. The ones not firing are fully innocent, the helicopter team are perhapse triger happy on maybe scared but not the main cause for this catastrophe, it is the gun firers who were stupid to an almost unimaginable degree that must take most of the blame. It would be equally unwise to fire off a few salvos of jubilation in Gaza Strip, Zimbabwe, or Chechenia amongst horribly many other places. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/32 "2004-05-20T23:45:24Z")
Do you really think, especially given recent examples of the failure of army intellegence and the POW mess, that the US army is capable of doing more than ‘shoot to kill when see or hear enemy with gun’? An army is only as good as its leaders, its processes and its training methods. My best friend’s husband is in Iraq. I consider him to be intelligent and ethical, would hate to have anything happen to him, but even given his IQ and ethics, he is only as good as his training and the internal processes of the army. Surely in order to kill without having major psychological hang ups, you need to think of the enemy as lowlifes. Is it really that easy to stop thinking this? When you see a wedding party, are you not just thinking - ‘look at the lowlifes (that I have been brought here to kill) in a wedding party - oh look guns - FIRE?’ ---
**Author:** ![OneYogini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b9e5f3/32.png) [@OneYogini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneYogini)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/33 "2004-05-20T23:53:48Z")
**wiping tears of pure joy** \* [highjack] **NurseCarmen** that was beyond beautiful!![end highjack] ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/34 "2004-05-21T00:46:47Z")
Oh, wow. I’ve been pitted by a gaggle of quislings and eunuchs. My feelings are so hurt. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/35 "2004-05-21T03:47:56Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Was this a battle situation or not? None of the reports coming out about this issue match up and we don’t know. And the war is supposed to be over, anyhow; we’ll have to _eventually_ learn to ask first and shoot later, right? How could any situation in Iraq not be considered a battle situation? Do people not die every fucking day from this shit? Yes, the war is “over”, any reports coming from random machine gun fire should be treated as celebratory “fireworks”. I think that you should volunteer to go and ask first, shoot later. I’m sure your parents will understand that you died being as PC as possible. Thank God that the Iraqui’s right to randomly discharge firearms is still intact! Let’s ignore the fact that that sort of behavior is irresponsible! Any and all acts committed by Americans in Iraq is inherently wrong! One atrocity, means that everything that ever happened in Iraq was also an atrocity! The guys that were **fucking forced** to go over to Iraq (the soldiers) should be indicators of the sentements and feelings of all Americans everywhere! Everything’s an outrage, and nobody does anything about it. lovely. How American. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/36 "2004-05-21T04:06:34Z")
> [@FunkyMonkey](#): > > If they had live fire coming in their direction, I wouldn’t expect them to jump up and ask “Alright, who the hell is shooting at me, put a hand up please.” . Forgive my ignorance, but how would one know the fire was coming “in their direction”? ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/37 "2004-05-21T04:34:29Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Forgive my ignorance, but how would one know the fire was coming “in their direction”? Of course! If one were in Iraq and heard automatic machine gun fire, the first thought that would enter one’s mind would be " was that celebratory fire, or aggressive fire?" At that point, they would get out their manual instruments in order to determine where the ordnance came from. After several minutes of careful computations and social evaluations, they _might_ decide that the missiles were aimed for them! After several rounds of authorized decision making, one of the soldiers might, _might_ actually shoot back. Otherwise, we could assume that such discharges of automatic firearms were nothing other than displays of patriotism. That’s never wrong is it? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/38 "2004-05-21T04:54:54Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Of course! If one were in Iraq and heard automatic machine gun fire, the first thought that would enter one’s mind would be " was that celebratory fire, or aggressive fire?" At that point, they would get out their manual instruments in order to determine where the ordnance came from. After several minutes of careful computations and social evaluations, they _might_ decide that the missiles were aimed for them! After several rounds of authorized decision making, one of the soldiers might, _might_ actually shoot back. > > Otherwise, we could assume that such discharges of automatic firearms were nothing other than displays of patriotism. That’s never wrong is it? I do not believe my question warrented your sarcasm. Again the question was “how do you know the fire is coming _in your direction_”. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/39 "2004-05-21T04:55:44Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Thank God that the Iraqui’s right to randomly discharge firearms is still intact! Let’s ignore the fact that that sort of behavior is irresponsible! I don’t think anyone is disputing this, even though the right to bear arms is (according to the NRA) sancrosanct under American democracy - and we are trying to export our version of democracy, yes? I think what is being disputed is the American response to the random discharge of firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189/40 "2004-05-21T11:18:17Z")
> [@chique](#): > > **Lib** , if you wanted the opinions of only those who have friends and family over there AND only the opinions of those who agree with you, you just had to say so. No, that isn’t the case. If your advice to your son or daughter would be to take time to think calmly and reasonably when encountering live fire, I’d be interested in hearing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lonesomepolecat-asshole/246189.md?page=3)