# Long: If conservatives could think... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233 "2009-02-03T09:25:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/161 "2009-02-04T08:09:03Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Why do they do this? Did they eat stupid food for breakfast? Stupid food–not just for breakfast anymore! ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/162 "2009-02-04T08:10:20Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I don’t think you need to dumb anything down for _me_. You see, the point is that the response may have been a little bit of a non-sequiter, but it really didn’t qualify as one of your “exhibits” because it didn’t support your thesis. Which was that conservatives are bullheaded, as you point out here. What about that post was bullheaded, exactly? What was bullheaded was that he took the opportunity to say, essentially, Oh, here we go again, anyone that doesn’t agree with my beliefs is stupid. Which isn’t what I said, and isn’t what I meant. You’re right, it was a bad Exhibit H. And there I was thinking I was quite clever. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/163 "2009-02-04T10:01:21Z")
Is it possible that it’s not what a person _thinks_ about an issue so much as how she or he _feels_ that determines whether that person is liberal or conservative? I think this might be true on social issues in particular. I understand the concept that many conservatives have of taking responsibility for yourself and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. Too many people that I love did just that! Some of them remained liberals for a lifetime! Conservatives don’t have that “can do” attitude locked up. > [@](#): > > **Little Plastic Ninja** : Conservatives are marked with a thorough dislike for bullshit. Don’t tell a conservative “just trust me, it’s true”. Don’t tell them “We know what’s best.” If it quacks like a duck, it’s a damn duck. Don’t make excuses as to why you’re depressed or violent or angry – others have done more with less, so pick yourself up and drive yourself forward. Your success will mean that much more when it comes. **Ninja** , I think you’ve done a fairly good job representing in just a few words how the two extremes _generally_ see themselves. It’s a little of a stereotype though, so when I say this, I know I’m speaking to a stereotype. Sometimes those “excuses” for being depressed or angry aren’t really excuses. They are reasons that need to be addressed and not just dismissed with a “get over it” attitude that _some_ conservatives are quick to have. Depression can have physical, biological causes that can be treated just like any other physical illness. And the anger that comes from abuse requires counselling or the chances are that it will be passed on for generations. In these examples, I think that liberals are taking a more realistic approach to the problems. Don’t misunderstand me. I am fully in support of high standards. I’m just for giving a person a leg up on reaching those high standards. > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** : Sam Stone: Then there are those on the left who are convinced beyond all reason that corporate America is a destructive force, that capitalists are generally evil and greedy, and who refuse to understand the various mechanisms that make markets work, choosing instead to believe that without the benevolent hand of government controlling all things, chaos would ensue. **Sam** , chaos **has** ensued. > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** : All they were saying was, give peace a chance. And of course, our governments tried that and it went terribly, terribly wrong. I have short term memory problems. Refresh me about “the Horror.” > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** : I had plenty of arguments with insufferable young lefties who were convinced the Soviet Union was paradise on earth. I’ve known several Communists including those who have run for office. I’ve never heard _any_ of them claim any such thing. > [@](#): > > **Sam Stone** : And in my experience, the new-agey, Gaia-loving, Tarot-reading, psychic, Goddess-worshipping community is about 98% liberal. You seem to be throwing several things in together, but: What has the “new-agey, Gaia-loving, Tarot-reading, psychic, Goddess-worshipping community” ever done to harm you? And what do they have to do with most liberals? **Sam** , do you equate “liberals” and “lefties”? Why do you find young lefties insufferable? Is it because they disagree with you? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/164 "2009-02-04T10:30:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, that William F. Buckley was a real moron, wasn’t he? Since I periodically drop by The Corner at the National Review Online, I can testify that, whatever you think of Buckley himself, his legacy is a bunch of groupthinkers who are as dumb as a box of rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Claptree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/165 "2009-02-04T15:08:16Z")
**Scylla** , those were some beautiful posts. If I had to guess, before reading this thread, which poster I’d agree with, I wouldn’t have guessed it would be you. Thanks for proving me wrong. ETA: Oh, shit. The pit. Fuck all you stubborn, can-see-no-fault-on-my-side, I’m-right-and-you’re-stupid, self serving assholes. On both sides. /Your friendly neighbourhood socialist. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/166 "2009-02-04T18:01:59Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Sam** , do you equate “liberals” and “lefties”? Yes he does, and moderates, and moderate-conservatives, and in fact anyone who does not wholeheartedly accept the teachings of Ayn Rand. Usually he adds the word “far” to “left”, or sometimes “ultra”, and often “loony”. His worldview is entirely bipolar. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/167 "2009-02-04T18:48:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Let’s start with Marxism. Discredited universally by anyone with half a brain, it was still the darling of lefty professors on campuses well into the 1990’s after even the Russians abandoned it. Today you can still find large swaths of leftists who trumpet Marxism. You seem to be confusing Marxism, the political movement (which I’ll agree is misguided and a cul de sac) with Marxist schools of criticism and philosophy (which I would contend are valuable tools in the Humanities, if sometimes taken too far) ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/168 "2009-02-04T19:21:13Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And who can forget the brilliance of the [Radical Cheerleaders](http://radcheers.tripod.com/) once you’ve heard them? Sorry for the hijack, but… You have simply \*got \*to go to YouTube and check out some Radical Cheerleaders. They do for liberalism what Fred Phelps does for Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/169 "2009-02-04T19:23:45Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I feel that liberals are much more philosophically inclined to re-examine ideas. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! snicker snicker… That’s a good one! You are a funny one Mr. Ruber! Some do…most don’t has been my experience. I also agree with you on conservatives…but haven’t noticed any more than liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/170 "2009-02-05T00:42:57Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > **Ninja** , I think you’ve done a fairly good job representing in just a few words how the two extremes _generally_ see themselves. It’s a little of a stereotype though, so when I say this, I know I’m speaking to a stereotype. Sometimes those “excuses” for being depressed or angry aren’t really excuses. They are reasons that need to be addressed and not just dismissed with a “get over it” attitude that _some_ conservatives are quick to have. Depression can have physical, biological causes that can be treated just like any other physical illness. And the anger that comes from abuse requires counselling or the chances are that it will be passed on for generations. Oh, absolutely. I’m a liberal, more or less, and I am desperately careful not to talk with many of those friends about politics. But just as an intolerance for bullshit can turn into an intolerance for weakness, honest complexity, or necessary change, a love of liberty and equality can turn into a lack of pragmatism, compromise, and the ability to say ‘enough is enough’. And both can turn into jingoism, pig-ignorance, and stubbornness. People of all stripes and all sides will argue a lost point into the ground to avoid having to be wrong or admit ignorance. The interesting thing about liberalism and conservatism is that they really aren’t as opposed as they’re made out to be. Two people might take the same train of thought to different stations. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/171 "2009-02-05T01:56:35Z")
> [@Claptree](#): > > **Scylla** , those were some beautiful posts. If I had to guess, before reading this thread, which poster I’d agree with, I wouldn’t have guessed it would be you. Thanks for proving me wrong. Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/172 "2009-02-05T14:09:56Z")
Whacky shit I have heard conservatives say: Tax cuts create jobs. The free market is more efficient than government. Government regulations are evil. There are jobs Americans won’t do. Same sex weddings will destroy the institution of marriage. Abortion is the same as murder. A rising tide lifts all boats. The terrorists are out to get us. Unions are destroying the economy. It is amazing what some people will believe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/173 "2009-02-05T14:36:09Z")
You were so busy lumping random shit together, you might not have stopped to think about where jobs come from or the liberal views on capitalist markets. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/174 "2009-02-05T14:42:05Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You were so busy lumping random shit together, you might not have stopped to think about where jobs come from or the liberal views on capitalist markets. The word ‘liberal’ has ceased to have any meaning at all in conversations with you, so I am not going to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/175 "2009-02-05T14:44:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The word ‘liberal’ has ceased to have any meaning at all in conversations with you, so I am not going to respond. Apparently, you just couldn’t help yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/176 "2009-02-06T00:58:25Z")
I’m a dedicated lurker and occasional poster, and this is the most fucking retarded thread I’ve ever seen. I’m not remotely conservative on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, war or civil liberties and I loath Bush & Company with most of my fellow libertarians, but if I had an award for “Person Who Would Improve the Human Race By Virtue of Just Shutting the Fuck Up” I’d give it to **Hilarity N. Suze**. “Conservatives are/do/say/believe X” = bigotry along the lines of racism or sexism. Frightening. Really. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/177 "2009-02-06T01:07:58Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > “Conservatives are/do/say/believe X” = bigotry along the lines of racism or sexism. Frightening. Really. So “Conservatives aren’t/don’t/ keep silent about/ denounce X”? That’s your position? ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/178 "2009-02-06T01:30:11Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > So “Conservatives aren’t/don’t/ keep silent about/ denounce X”? That’s your position? My position is that a generic hypothetical has no antithesis. ---
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/179 "2009-02-06T01:38:05Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > True, it was a small sample size. Are you feigning a case study or just omniscient analysis? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233/180 "2009-02-06T04:18:40Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > I’m a dedicated lurker and occasional poster, and this is the most fucking retarded thread I’ve ever seen. I’m not remotely conservative on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, war or civil liberties and I loath Bush & Company with most of my fellow libertarians, but if I had an award for “Person Who Would Improve the Human Race By Virtue of Just Shutting the Fuck Up” I’d give it to **Hilarity N. Suze**. > > “Conservatives are/do/say/believe X” = bigotry along the lines of racism or sexism. Frightening. Really. It’s bigotry to notice that the conservatives I know IRL consistently deny facts that don’t support their statements? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-if-conservatives-could-think/484233.md?page=10)