# Long-term prospects for Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062 "2014-11-19T12:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/101 "2014-11-21T05:53:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This entire argument just demonstrates America’s continuing pervasive racism, This is easily the stupidest comment made on this thread. You do realize that Israel is not the United States don’t you? Beyond that, you’ve mentioned on a few occasions “400 million Arabs”, “several hundred million Arabs” and similar phrases. Er… how many Arabs do you think there are? The total combined population of all 22 Arab countries(admittedly there are disagreements over how many there are) is roughly 120-140 million people(admittedly this is debatable as well). Furthermore, if Israel ever engages in what has been called “the Masada option” only a tiny number of the Arab nations would be targeted and that would only be once all other options had been exhausted. Were it up to me, Israel would never have existed, though to be fair neither would Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait or a bunch of other Middle Eastern states, but they are not a real life Bond villain. Anyway, back to the OP, people have been predicting since at least 1948 that Israel can’t survive, the status quo can’t continue and every single time the people who’ve said that and been certain of that have been left with egg all over their face looking like idiots and almost without exception, have been too ignorant to even realize how foolish they looked. Were I the OP, I’d recommend rethinking his/her position. People who stare into crystal balls usually wind up with faces filled with glass. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/102 "2014-11-21T06:06:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > If the enemy knows you believe this, there is no deterrent effect remaining. > > They know you’re only bluffing. They have no incentive not to invade. > > MAD only works because it is insanely extreme. It promises the other guy, “You cannot win this, no matter what. So don’t try.” > > If he’s stupid enough to try anyway…and starts to win…the promise has to be kept. By all means, keep up the pretense before the war has been decided. Threaten, bluster, make shows of force. But this is when the war has been decided. We lost, its over, at that point there’s no good coming from killing scores of people. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/103 "2014-11-21T10:44:23Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > This is easily the stupidest comment made on this thread. > > You do realize that Israel is not the United States don’t you? Israelis aren’t the people making most of the comments in this thread however. It’s not the _Israelis_ going on in this thread about how they should just try to kill off millions of uninvolved people. This is a mostly _US_ board. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Beyond that, you’ve mentioned on a few occasions “400 million Arabs”, “several hundred million Arabs” and similar phrases. > > Er… how many Arabs do you think there are? Not 400 million - as I said. That wasn’t my number to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/104 "2014-11-21T11:00:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No thanks. These threads give me ulcers. Me too. I live in California, but I have lots of family and friends in Israel. Sometimes I think people who post in these threads don’t know they’re talking about real people. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/105 "2014-11-21T11:33:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > What is the sura from the Koran where a tree calls out, “There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him!” ? Nitpick, but it’s a hadith. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/106 "2014-11-21T12:05:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This is hardly the first time I’ve seen it suggested that killing the entire Arab population of the world would be good thing. Israel nuking specific Arab nations that are overrunning it in a war = justifiable. Israel nuking other, unrelated, Arab people that have nothing to do with the war = not justifiable. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/107 "2014-11-21T13:35:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Nitpick, but it’s a hadith. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/108 "2014-11-21T13:44:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Jews don’t run everything, but Jews are disproportionately wealthy, influential, and active in politics. It goes well beyond the 2.4%. … and typically vote Democrat. See post 98. Again, the notion that the 2.4% is wagging the dog is silly, and goes against the evidence. Why not just admit that there is a considerable amount of support among evangelicals and conservatives? > [@](#): > > And again, they have historically been very committed to supporting Israel, which also counts for a lot more than 2.4%. If 2.4% of the voters care passionately about something and the rest of the population is largely ambivalent, then that 2.4% will win out. > > Again, “the majority of US citizens who are neither Muslim nor Jew” don’t care about it nearly as much as either Muslims or Jews. In addition, having a lot of Muslims means having more connection to Muslims worldwide, depictions of Muslim suffering etc. Disagree. Sometimes, it seems that the actual opinions of US conservatives get lost here, because so few of them post here. They are a very substantial group wielding considerable political power, and by and large they support Israel - more fervently, in fact, than some Jews - who, in America, have a history of identifying with liberal causes. Try looking at articles concerning the “Christian Right” and “Israel”. You will see that pretty well everyone accepts that they fervently support Israel - the debate is about why. [Understanding the Evangelical Christian's Support for Israel | Opinion](http://www.christianpost.com/news/understanding-the-evangelical-christians-support-for-israel-97200/#)! The notion that the US is growing ever more sympathetic to Muslim concerns, and is likely to do so in the future, seems to fly in the face of reality. If anything, the opposite is the case. > [@](#): > > I’ve suggested that support in Canada is specific to the current government. Do you disagree with this? In Canada (where, as I have pointed out, Jews form a tiny minority - 0.8% - even less able to influence politics than in the US), both Liberals and Conservatives support Israel, but with this difference: the Conservative support is often criticised by Liberals as being essentially unconditional, while the Liberal pride themselves on a more nuanced approach. Neither position has anything to do with “Jewish influence”. The notion is risable. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/109 "2014-11-21T14:08:48Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Me too. I live in California, but I have lots of family and friends in Israel. Sometimes I think people who post in these threads don’t know they’re talking about real people. Yeah, what bugs me the most is that people don’t really seem to think of us as a real country, you know? Even our supporters often see us as some sort of science project or something. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/110 "2014-11-21T14:29:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, what bugs me the most is that people don’t really seem to think of us as a real country, you know? Even our supporters often see us as some sort of science project or something. Unfortunately\*, a lot of Israel’s American supporters are evangelical Christians who see you guys as what’s needed to bring on the End Times. So maybe an anti-science project. \*As you know, I’m not the biggest fan of Israel these days, but even I would wish a better-quality fan club for your country. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/111 "2014-11-21T14:47:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Unfortunately\*, a lot of Israel’s American supporters are evangelical Christians who see you guys as what’s needed to bring on the End Times. > So maybe an anti-science project. I exchanged email with a Rabbi in New England who supported Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee. I pointed out that he was a rabid Republican, Evangelical minister; opposed to increasing our tiny minimum wage; vetoed a bill that would control insurance companies because the bill used the phrase, “Acts of G-d” and believed Israel played a part in the Christian end of days. “I don’t care”, he responded, “as long as he supports Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062/112 "2014-11-21T15:03:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Unfortunately\*, a lot of Israel’s American supporters are evangelical Christians who see you guys as what’s needed to bring on the End Times. > > So maybe an anti-science project. > > \*As you know, I’m not the biggest fan of Israel these days, but even I would wish a better-quality fan club for your country. I’m no fan of the Christian Right in the US, but I would caution against a cartoon characterization of their motives. Contrary to popular belief around here, they are not driven entirely by millennial concerns when it comes to Israel. See above linked article. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/long-term-prospects-for-israel/705062.md?page=5)