# Longest living fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564 "2007-09-09T13:26:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/21 "2007-09-09T19:35:56Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] However, where fire seems to fail the test is Irritability - that is, response to external stimuli. [/QUOTE] Does pouring water on it count as an external stimulus? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/22 "2007-09-09T19:39:42Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] There was a lot of wiggle room in the definition, now that I think about it. However, where fire seems to fail the test is Irritability - that is, response to external stimuli. Saying “boo” to a fire has zero effect on it. [/QUOTE] Wind? Resolved: Fire is alive ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/23 "2007-09-09T19:45:42Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] There was a lot of wiggle room in the definition, now that I think about it. However, where fire seems to fail the test is Irritability - that is, response to external stimuli. Saying “boo” to a fire has zero effect on it. [/QUOTE] If you count oxygen supply as an external stimulus, fire is irritable. Denied oxygen, it can become sleepy and dormant. Offered more than 21% oxygen (as a component of atmospheric air), it becomes quite excited. Feeding it different fuels also has a marked effect on how a fire behaves. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/24 "2007-09-09T20:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] Does pouring water on it count as an external stimulus? [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. After all, if you shoot somebody in the head, they fall over dead - but this isn’t stimulus-response as most people would understand it. Wind is a better counterexample. Maybe the definition I was taught in school won’t do. It wouldn’t be the first time my formal education has failed me. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/25 "2007-09-09T20:38:58Z")
Although fires can be said to reproduce, their reproduction is different from that of living organisms in a crucial way: Living organisms produce offspring which resemble their parent or parents more than they do other members of that same type of organism. This is not the case with fires; they extert no “control” over what characteristics their “offspring” take, which instead is completely dependent on the environment. A spark from a pile of burning magnesium shavings may land in a pile of wood chips and ignite them, but the “daughter” fire won’t be a magnesium fire any more–you would be able to put out the daughter fire of burning wood chips by pouring water on it, for example (which would be a bad idea with the “mother” magnesium fire). A spark from the wood fire may in turn ignite a pool of oil, or set off a coal seam; in each case, the new fire will resemble other oil fires or coal fires, and not the parent or grandparent fires. Fire therefore never evolves in a Darwinian way; and I suspect “undergoes evolution by natural selection” may be fundamental to the definition of life. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/26 "2007-09-09T21:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] How do these underground coal fires breathe? [/QUOTE] Paging **Una Persson**. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/27 "2007-09-09T22:04:27Z")
Regarding “Is fire alive,” my question is this: What’s the point of distinguishing between living and non-living things? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/28 "2007-09-09T23:30:37Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Regarding “Is fire alive,” my question is this: What’s the point of distinguishing between living and non-living things? [/QUOTE] Right; it seems to me that, as far as the life we’ve seen on this planet goes anyway, the crucial distinction is between _stuff we’re genetically related to_ and _everything else_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/29 "2007-09-10T02:23:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Likewise, it didn’t matter if a creature didn’t actually reproduce, as long as it could, in theory. So a Catholic priest counted as alive. Looked at that way, though, you’re still ruling out eunuchs and old women. A better interpretation of the “reproduction” criterion is that a living thing (even a priest, eunuch, or grandmother) is made up of parts which reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/30 "2007-09-10T12:32:36Z")
Is it true that iron that is rusting is really undergoing a verrry slow fire? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/31 "2007-09-10T12:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=Koxinga] Is it true that iron that is rusting is really undergoing a verrry slow fire? [/QUOTE] Only in a verrry loose definition of fire. Rusting is oxidation, but the most common definition of fire includes properties not present in rusting, such as gaseous plasma. ---
**Author:** ![solkoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/32 "2007-09-10T13:10:37Z")
Interesting discussion. Going back to the OP, what if I was looking for a flame instead of smoldering coal? What is the longest lasting flame in history? ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/33 "2007-09-10T13:45:38Z")
Close your eyes and give me your hand Do you feel my heart beating, do you understand? Do you feel the same, am I only dreaming Or is this burning an eternal flame? Quoth the Bangles… The old flame, the burning in my loins this heartlamp that I’ve been carrying, baby. That’s one anthropomorphization of fire. Sacred Heart aflame… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/34 "2007-09-10T14:01:44Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] Fire therefore never evolves in a Darwinian way; and I suspect “undergoes evolution by natural selection” may be fundamental to the definition of life. [/QUOTE] Perhaps fire was intelligently designed? d&r ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/35 "2007-09-10T14:13:28Z")
[Another link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354731) to an earlier thread somewhat related to this subject, with some interesting discussion as to the definition(s) of life. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/36 "2007-09-10T14:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] Perhaps fire was intelligently designed? [/QUOTE] [“I am the God of Hell Fire, and I bring you… Fire!!!”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_sHic-kcU) ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/37 "2007-09-10T17:47:50Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Only in a verrry loose definition of fire. Rusting is oxidation, but the most common definition of fire includes properties not present in rusting, such as gaseous plasma. [/QUOTE] From NFPA 921: Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations > [@](#): > > 5.1.2.4.1 Combustion is a complex set of chemical reactions that results in the rapid oixdation of a fuel, producing heat, light, and a variety of chemical by-products. Slow oxidation, such as rust or the yellowing of newspaper, produces heat so slowly that combustion does not occur. Self-sustained combustion occurs when sufficient excess heat from the exothermic reaction radiates back to the fuel to produce vapors and cause ignition in the absence of the original ignition source. I wouldn’t call it a loose definition, but instead an equivalent reaction at a greatly reduced rate of propagation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/38 "2007-09-11T08:35:08Z")
We the shepards of fire, to shield, propagate, and direct. Its essence, harness of direction and mind. Eternal at our will. Long as we, Longer than we. Destruction and life…rebirth and infinite. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/39 "2007-09-11T14:27:13Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] Close your eyes and give me your hand Do you feel my heart beating, do you understand? Do you feel the same, am I only dreaming Or is this burning an eternal flame? Quoth the Bangles… [/QUOTE] I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor: dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564/40 "2007-09-11T16:04:06Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] Keep in mind that not all fire takes place in a steady or flaming state. While no expert on coal seam fires, I understand them to burn in a smoldering mode which will use available oxygen at a slower rate. Further, having visited Centralia, PA, one byproduct of the coal seam’s consumption, is creation of sink holes or subsidence, which provides new avenues for oxygen supply. Route 61 was detoured around Centralia because the ground beneath the highway was deemed insufficiently stable to safely support traffic. [/QUOTE] I came here to post about Centralia. Interesting case, more info here [Centralia, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania) and many more sites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-living-fire/418564.md?page=3)