# Longest word in English (or Welsh for that matter :-) ) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 27, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675 "2015-04-27T21:43:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/21 "2015-05-04T05:02:09Z")
Lots more vowels than one might normally expect to find, too. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/22 "2015-05-04T05:42:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Lots more vowels than one might normally expect to find, too. Yeah even the less lengthy ones are short on vowels in welsh. Cwm for instance. Great in scrabble though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/23 "2015-05-04T19:12:30Z")
“Cwm” has a vowel—_w_. Even as late as when my mother was going to school, the vowel list ended “…and sometimes _y_ and _w_.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/24 "2015-05-05T23:52:35Z")
Even as late as when I was going to school, too. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/25 "2015-05-06T09:01:59Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > “Cwm” has a vowel—_w_. Even as late as when my mother was going to school, the vowel list ended “…and sometimes _y_ and _w_.” Nope, they’re glides or semi-vowels, but not vowels. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/26 "2015-05-06T21:07:31Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Nope, they’re glides or semi-vowels, but not vowels. In Welsh, “w” is most certainly a vowel. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/27 "2015-05-06T22:05:09Z")
And y is a vowel in “by”, “rhythm”, “happy” and “myrrh” but not in “yellow”. So 4 out of the 5 sounds represented by the letter y in English are vowels. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/28 "2015-05-06T22:13:33Z")
I don’t think the two posters above went to school in Wales. Y and w do occasionally work as vowels, hence them being semi-vowels. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/29 "2015-05-06T23:05:13Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I don’t think the two posters above went to school in Wales. > > Y and w do occasionally work as vowels, hence them being semi-vowels. Y represents a semi-vowel [j] in “yellow” but a vowel \* in “happy”. In the case of y (but not w), occasional is an understatement. The vast majority of ys represent vowel sounds; its use to represent [j], despite being the canonical “y” sound, is less common. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/30 "2015-05-07T02:34:07Z")
And _w_ is a vowel in _cwm_, and _cwm_ is to be found in English dictionaries. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/31 "2015-05-07T13:26:30Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Nope, they’re glides or semi-vowels, but not vowels. > [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > In Welsh, “w” is most certainly a vowel. > [@hibernicus](#): > > And y is a vowel in “by”, “rhythm”, “happy” and “myrrh” but not in “yellow”. So 4 out of the 5 sounds represented by the letter y in English are vowels. I can’t believe you people are arguing about vowel language in a family-friendly forum. :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/32 "2015-05-08T16:07:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **The Straight Dope** > As for the second half of your question, the longest word in the first OED was 29-letter floccinaucinihilipilification (the categorizing of something as worthless or trivial). _Note to Self_ \*Must find a way to work this one into a post. Perhaps in response to a certain prolific poster in the \ ***Elections** _forum…_ > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **raventhief** > The summit where he played Tamatea , the man big knees , the slider , mountain climber , land - **llyncwr traveled about, his nose flute to his loved one** (bolding added) :eek: Some rather disturbing imagery there… SS ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/33 "2015-05-08T16:35:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I don’t think the two posters above went to school in Wales. > > Y and w do occasionally work as vowels, hence them being semi-vowels. When I was in school, _w was never mentioned in the list of vowels. Sometimes y_ was where the list ended. So I sit corrected that it was once included commonly in the list. But I only know of two words (cwm and crwth, both borrowed words) are the only ones I know about that use w as a vowel in English. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/34 "2015-05-08T17:46:33Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > When I was in school, _w was never mentioned in the list of vowels. Sometimes y_ was where the list ended. So I sit corrected that it was once included commonly in the list. But I only know of two words (cwm and crwth, both borrowed words) are the only ones I know about that use w as a vowel in English usage. I should correct this – that have **no other** vowels but “sometimes w.” My understanding that cow and saw each had one vowel and two consonants. But there are a lot of words that incorporate w as a vowel sound, combined with another vowel. Such as cow, or saw- ow and aw are actually single sounds. So… do they have two vowels each? Hence the semi-vowel designation of w and y, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/35 "2015-05-09T00:24:42Z")
“Semivowel” has nothing to do with orthography or with putting letters into classificatory boxes. It refers to the merely phonetic fact that _y_ and _w_, even when they are being employed as consonants, have a fundamentally vowel-ish nature. “Wish” is essentially “oo-ish” spoken quickly and “you” is essentially “ee-oo”. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/36 "2015-05-10T04:13:12Z")
Wish is actually oo-ish? It doesn’t _look_ oo-ish. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675/37 "2015-05-10T13:27:11Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > “Semivowel” has nothing to do with orthography or with putting letters into classificatory boxes. It refers to the merely phonetic fact that _y_ and _w_, even when they are being employed as consonants, have a fundamentally vowel-ish nature. “Wish” is essentially “oo-ish” spoken quickly and “you” is essentially “ee-oo”. Yup! The fundamentally vowelish nature, heh, is that for vowels you can make the sound without doing much with your tongue (it might go down at the back a bit but that’s often a natural consequence of the mouth position) and you can make the sound with just _one_ mouth position. For y you have to move your tongue and for w you have to move your mouth twice so they’re not really vowels. Neither obstruct the flow of air in any way, though, so they’re not really consonants either. Semi-vowel or glide is the most appropriate term but in English it’s just not necessary to know that level of detail most of the time; it’s OK for teachers to simplify things that students would be confused by, in no very useful way, at their level of understanding. In this thread we can explain in more detail than in a class of kids. The classification does actually sort of make a difference when it comes to learning languages or replicating sounds that you find difficult if, say, you have a speech impediment. Vowels are easier for everyone than semi-vowels/glides, and consonants have varying levels of difficulty. This is all for monopthongs - vowels that are just one vowel, like in cot (which, whether long or short, is one vowel). Dipthongs and tripthongs are two/three vowels put together; really, y and w are dipthongs, but they’re used so often in so many languages in a very, very abbreviated form that they have their own term. > [@Senegoid](#): > > Wish is actually oo-ish? It doesn’t _look_ oo-ish. Very good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longest-word-in-english-or-welsh-for-that-matter/718675.md?page=1)