# LongRoad: You're a (not-so-subtle) racist. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386 "2002-04-24T16:38:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/21 "2002-04-24T23:54:46Z")
**Gadarene** , I didn’t place any connection with the jibber-jabber statement but I definitely took exception to this > [@](#): > > I’ll make this brief, boy. The thought that instantly came to mind was of an a racist white man talking to a black man. The word “boy” (in that context) was used as an insult. This statement coupled with the rest of his post screamed racist to me. I could, of course, be mistaken about his intentions, but I don’t think so. [sub] It’s saddening to see how something that simple can still cause so much pain and anger. I’ve seen people use the terms nigger, coon, darkie, etc when describing or addressing a black person but they never evoked such an instantaneous desire to beat the shit out of the speaker.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/22 "2002-04-25T00:19:19Z")
Posting this is asking for trouble, but, here goes… **Gadarene** and **Biggirl** , I respect your opinions, but I disagree on this specific issue. My wife teaches in a medical school in Newark and my African American cousin Dr. December practices medicine there. Regrettably, the ER there is more-or-less as described in the OP. I think talking about the conditions can help society to better deal with its problems and challenges. I don’t know anything about **Longroad’s** racism or lack thereof. The segments quoted in the OP certainly represent ugly stereotypes. Unfortunately, some of them have a degree of validity My point is that it may be necessary to face unpleasant facts. Killing the messenger with the bad news doesn’t fix the problems. For example – A few years ago, the federal government came out with crime statistics by locality. IIRC some types of crime were literally a thousand times more frequent in Newark than in the suburb where I live. That statistic represents a wake-up call to law enforcement to find better ways to protect Newark residents. It’s uncomfortable news, but it’s important to pay attention. Otherwise there’s less incentive to fix the crime problem there. BTW there’s a primary for Mayor between an old-line pol, who everyone thinks is corrupt, and a birght, young reformer. The reformer is given no chance to win. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/23 "2002-04-25T01:08:50Z")
**december** , would you like to back up this claim that statistics bear out **LongRoad’s** description of “ghetto life”? You know, the part where white people get dumped dead and the part where soul singers glorify crouch grabbing. The part where poor blacks wearing their bigger brother’s hand-me-downs is a sure sign of abject poverty. The part about the Mom and Pop stores, supermarkets and doctors offices are so much more --scary-- in the ghetto. The FBI report that proves this: > [@](#): > > You know, the kind of place that if you white and you get dumped off in the middle of, you might not make it out in one piece at night, though in the day time you have a fair chance. Or the statistics that show us these numbers: > [@](#): > > At the edge is usually the free public health clinic, the waiting area full of heavy black and Hispanic women with dirty, screaming kids and smelling of piss and sweat. Please show how these statistics are tied to race and not income level. Your stupid innuendos get tiring after a while **december**. Either put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/24 "2002-04-25T01:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > **december** , would you like to back up this claim that statistics bear out **LongRoad’s** description of “ghetto life”? No, thank you. As I said, **LongRoad’s** words represent ugly stereotypes. > [@](#): > > Please show how these statistics are tied to race and not income level. Your stupid innuendos get tiring after a while **december**. ] I’m sorry. I didn’t intend innuendos. I addressed two specific aspects of life in Newark, NJ. I don’t know what the cause of Newark’s problems is. However, I am quite interested in seeing living conditions improve there, just as you are. > [@](#): > > Either put up or shut up. I will shut up. We’re on the same side. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/25 "2002-04-25T02:04:33Z")
**december:** > [@](#): > > Gadarene and Biggirl, I respect your opinions, but I disagree on this specific issue. also **december:** > [@](#): > > We’re on the same side. Huh? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/26 "2002-04-25T02:13:56Z")
You addressed which points in **LongRoad’s** tirade? You seem to be insinuating that LR’s screed is accurate in some way and you have stats to prove it. Which part of his spewage can you back up with numbers? To say that certain crimes are higher in Newark than in the suburb in which you live is one thing. To then say that LG’s bullshit is partly right and you’ve seen the numbers to prove it is just a backhanded way of giving legitimacy to LR exaggerated baiting. So again I ask: Which part of all that crap is right? ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/27 "2002-04-25T04:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chief Crunch \* > **If someone made a scathing and detailed post regarding the quality of living in a trailer park likening all the “white trash rednecks” who live there to meth producers who marry their cousins would it be racist?** If a white guy said it, it would be classist. Not cool either. So-called “white trash” take plenty of their own shit from classists and racists. On first read, I took **LongRoad’s** post as more xenophobic than racist. I could imagine him describing conditions in another country. It made me angry because he is judging someone else’s way of living. Not to mention the fact that he seems to think that only children in ghettos use swear words and don’t know to get out of the way of oncoming cars. However, the comment that stood out to me as racially ignorant, if not all-out racist, was the one about it being dangerous for a white person to hang around in that neighborhood. I’d like to hear about all the times he was approached by someone who wanted to mug him, or the times when he really felt he was in immediate danger and might have to use that gun. It sounds to me like he got his perceptions of the ghetto from TV and what his parents always told him (I learned long ago never to trust what my parents told me about black people and bad areas of town) and took them with him into the actual ghetto. In short, “racist” might be a bit harsh, but “ignorant and needs to broaden his way of thinking” fits like a glove. **Gadarene,** I understand we are dealing with sensetive subject matter here and everyone is a bit on edge, but I think you over-interpreted the “jibbering” comment. I can think of plenty of rock songs my parents would have applied this word to. However you may have heard it used elsewhere, i think its use is innocent here. **mornea,** ditto for “boy.” I think this was meant to refer to what **Longroad** imagined was the age of his opponent. He had made references to his own age (old) in other posts, and was continuing this comparison between himself and “these kids these days wearin’ their crazy pants.” Speaking of crazy pants, I’d like to hear what **Longroad’s** parents had to say about his tight jeans and t-shirt when he was a little punk. I would also like to know whether when he was standing around in his tight jeans and t-shirt with his other tight jeans-wearing friends it meant that he was “looking for trouble” like all those ghetto kids. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/28 "2002-04-25T05:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Even if they do, I still detest rap. I don’t like soul singers grabbing at their crotches every few seconds either or glorifying gang signs as part of a jibbering, frantic dance. Innocent? _shrug_ Maybe. I’d be more likely to believe that if it wasn’t followed by, y’know, eighteen steaming tons of ignorant, stereotypical crap. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/29 "2002-04-25T12:40:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*You addressed which points in **LongRoad’s** tirade? You seem to be insinuating that LR’s screed is accurate in some way and you have stats to prove it. Which part of his spewage can you back up with numbers? > > To say that certain crimes are higher in Newark than in the suburb in which you live is one thing. To then say that LG’s bullshit is partly right and you’ve seen the numbers to prove it is just a backhanded way of giving legitimacy to LR exaggerated baiting. > > So again I ask: Which part of all that crap is right? \*\* Methinks you’re letting some previous impression of **december** cloud your vision here. I’ve read and reread his post and can’t find anywhere where he claims to have statistics to back up anything that moron **longroad** said. He specifically said that **longroad’s** little rant represented ugly stereotypes, but that the ugliness of the message doesn’t change the fact that he’s right about one thing(and one thing only). Hyperbole aside, life in the ghetto sucks. I know, I live there. **Longroad** painted a picture of life there that while not completely innaccurate, is far too simplistic and colored by hate. But **december’s** point seems to be more just saying that perhaps we should look past the words and actually take notice of the fact that things need to be made better. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/30 "2002-04-25T13:06:34Z")
Um, **5-ht** , **december** wrote this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > > I don’t know anything about **Longroad’s** racism or lack thereof. The segments quoted in the OP certainly represent ugly stereotypes. **Unfortunately, some of them have a degree of validity** > > _snippage. . ._ > > For example – A few years ago, the federal government came out with crime statistics by locality. IIRC some types of crime were literally a thousand times more frequent in Newark than in the suburb where I live. _Bolding mine_. Yes, I am influenced by **december’s** posting history. He has a habit of tossing out “facts” backed up by “statistics” that prove some nebulous point. Here he actually says he has an FBI report that proves some of LR’s load of crap. I’m still waiting for his proof. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/31 "2002-04-25T13:25:32Z")
I don’t know, maybe you’re right. but to me saying that something has a **degree** of validity and then providing an example of a tangentally related point is not the same as saying you have an FBI report that backs up another poster’s whole rant. Oh well, asi es la vida… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/32 "2002-04-25T13:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*Um, **5-ht** , **december** wrote this: > > _Bolding mine_. > Yes, I am influenced by **december’s** posting history. He has a habit of tossing out “facts” backed up by “statistics” that prove some nebulous point. Here he actually says he has an FBI report that proves some of LR’s load of crap. > > I’m still waiting for his proof. \*\* [http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeOneYearofData.cfm](http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeOneYearofData.cfm)[http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeOneYearofData.cfm](http://149.101.22.40/dataonline/Search/Crime/Local/RunCrimeOneYearofData.cfm) **Biggirl** , I am unable to back up my statistics at this time. I did find the above links, which represent number of crimes as reported bythe police department. These show higher crime rates in Newark than in my town, but the ratios of crime to population are more like 3 to 1 than 1000 to 1. Either my memory was false or the news reports I recalled dealt with some other statistics. **5-HT** , thank you for your post. What you said is what I meant ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386/33 "2002-04-25T15:01:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* but the ratios of crime to population are more like 3 to 1 than 1000 to 1. Either my memory was false or the news reports I recalled dealt with some other statistics. > \*\* do you want odds on which (‘your memory was false’ or ‘news reports you recalled dealt w/some other stats’) I think is more likely? May I sugges that you refrain from the ‘IIRC’, since in your current situation, it always elicits an immediate “CITE” response, then you end up eating your words. Or, like in this case sort of admitting that you posted erroneous data, or you ‘just can’t find proof of it right now’ It might tend to build up your credibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/longroad-youre-a-not-so-subtle-racist/105386.md?page=1)